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Old 09-04-2012, 11:27 AM   #51
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Well, this is where things get a little tricky. The dyno won't (shouldn't) reflect any real change in numbers because it's done with the hood up. That being said, I'm highly curious as to how much this will or will not affect fuel mileage.

Now I will preface what I am about to say by stating that in no way am I trying to put down the K&N intake, it's design, or anything. I truly like the way it looks and the numbers are definitively better above 4.2k when compared to my current setup beyond the shadow of a doubt. I like all of the aftermarket intakes in some way, shape, or form.

That being said, I pulled my headlight and closed my hood in order to better examine the effectiveness of the setup. I couldn't get pics due to my dumb phone and lack of light, but the engine-bay air has multiple avenues to access the filter. Combined with the amount of sealing that has been done to the Mk3 engine bay, I can understand why some of the posters commented on possible heat-soak issues. Air will naturally follow the path of least resistance, so it would make sense that anyone with the setup that still has the snorkel installed will probably be paying a price for it.

With the amount of surface area that air can seep around to the filter, there *shouldn't* be much suction (if any) through the Newmission install. This is something I will be checking for once the mod is complete. What will change, however, is the temperature of the air available to the intake while the car is in motion. Time will tell, I do believe.
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Old 09-04-2012, 02:15 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dyn085 View Post
Well, this is where things get a little tricky. The dyno won't (shouldn't) reflect any real change in numbers because it's done with the hood up. That being said, I'm highly curious as to how much this will or will not affect fuel mileage.

Now I will preface what I am about to say by stating that in no way am I trying to put down the K&N intake, it's design, or anything. I truly like the way it looks and the numbers are definitively better above 4.2k when compared to my current setup beyond the shadow of a doubt. I like all of the aftermarket intakes in some way, shape, or form.

That being said, I pulled my headlight and closed my hood in order to better examine the effectiveness of the setup. I couldn't get pics due to my dumb phone and lack of light, but the engine-bay air has multiple avenues to access the filter. Combined with the amount of sealing that has been done to the Mk3 engine bay, I can understand why some of the posters commented on possible heat-soak issues. Air will naturally follow the path of least resistance, so it would make sense that anyone with the setup that still has the snorkel installed will probably be paying a price for it.

With the amount of surface area that air can seep around to the filter, there *shouldn't* be much suction (if any) through the Newmission install. This is something I will be checking for once the mod is complete. What will change, however, is the temperature of the air available to the intake while the car is in motion. Time will tell, I do believe.
Snorkel? I am not aware of this issue...what are we talking about?
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Old 09-04-2012, 02:20 PM   #53
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There is a snorkel that attaches to the front side of the radiator support to pull air from the right side of the car behind the right whisker. There are 3 push-pins that secure it, and when removed allow air to enter the plenum directly at the radiator support. I'll try and see if I can drum up some pics. OEM piece, not part of the kit.
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Old 09-04-2012, 02:25 PM   #54
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I always wondered if you could remove that. I'll have to try. Was yours removed on the pulls?
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Old 09-04-2012, 02:29 PM   #55
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Mine has been removed since ever. I only reinstalled it once to re-create the stock dyno runs on the first page. After that it came out for good and went the way of the garbage.

I don't have pics of it, but ZX3Matt does in one of his threads.
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Old 09-04-2012, 02:34 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by wantz12 View Post
True, but as dyno was saying, how many people run at 3.8K unless they are accelerating at a high speed.
How many people that don't run at 3.8K+ RPM want an HP increase from an intake? Let's face it, this engine is peaky and designed to give maximum performance at 3.5K+ RPM. Why, then, would you not want the intake to offer the most gain at those RPMs?


Manufacturers of these kits are looking to improve maximum performance, not necessarily improve MPG and low-RPM drive-ability. Shortening an intake tract, which is in effect one thing these short-ram intakes do, usually results in improving high-rpm HP and reducing low-RPM torque.
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Old 09-04-2012, 03:16 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TboneZX3 View Post
How many people that don't run at 3.8K+ RPM want an HP increase from an intake? Let's face it, this engine is peaky and designed to give maximum performance at 3.5K+ RPM. Why, then, would you not want the intake to offer the most gain at those RPMs?

Shortening an intake tract, which is in effect one thing these short-ram intakes do, usually results in improving high-rpm HP and reducing low-RPM torque.
Well, I guess I could have been a little clearer on the intent of my thread. I don't overly care how any of this data shows. I have inexpensive access to a dyno and I'm not afraid to beat on my car for some data. If an idea arises that has some merit, I am usually willing to give it a shot and my opinion.

I understand that people who want RACECAR would like the intake. I even stated that those who spend time above 4k would like the intake. But I ultimately try to cover as many angles as possible, to include power, fuel mileage, cost, etc.

The main reason that this intake was so kindly passed to me was to collect data that could correlate to fuel mileage. That is why I stated and have been stating how it would affect the average driver.

And as an fyi, the K&N intake actually lengthens the intake tract from the MAF sensor on. What occurs before the MAF is pertinent, but even removing the top of the box doesn't produce this size of a gain on the top end.
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Old 09-04-2012, 03:18 PM   #58
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Well, I guess I could have been a little clearer on the intent of my thread. I don't overly care how any of this data shows. I have inexpensive access to a dyno and I'm not afraid to beat on my car for some data. If an idea arises that has some merit, I am usually willing to give it a shot and my opinion.
Right. I was in no way questioning your motives or observations/opinions. My comments were directed to wantz12's comment, and that's why I quoted him directly.
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Old 09-04-2012, 03:22 PM   #59
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And as an fyi, the K&N intake actually lengthens the intake tract from the MAF sensor on.
Are you only measuring to the MAF? Intake tract length would include the entire length of the tract that generates vacuum, correct? Wouldn't the tract length be measured to the filter on the K&N (where the vacuum chamber effectively ends), and past the filter to the snorkel on the stock intake?

Also, I wouldn't expect the stock box to necessarily gain hp with the lid removed due to filter/elbow restriction, but I wouldn't be surprised if low-RPM torque was reduced by removing the lid. Removing the lid would effectively shorten the intake tract.
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Old 09-04-2012, 08:25 PM   #60
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Quote:
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Right. I was in no way questioning your motives or observations/opinions. My comments were directed to wantz12's comment, and that's why I quoted him directly.
I understand, I just want this to be a relatively civil thread. Lots of people get wrapped around the axle over dyno info (not saying this is the case, just stating), and not a lot of people have had good data to look at to try and understand. Everyone has a different perspective.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TboneZX3 View Post
Are you only measuring to the MAF? Intake tract length would include the entire length of the tract that generates vacuum, correct? Wouldn't the tract length be measured to the filter on the K&N (where the vacuum chamber effectively ends), and past the filter to the snorkel on the stock intake?

Also, I wouldn't expect the stock box to necessarily gain hp with the lid removed due to filter/elbow restriction, but I wouldn't be surprised if low-RPM torque was reduced by removing the lid. Removing the lid would effectively shorten the intake tract.
My measurement comparison between the two is strictly speaking from manifold to MAF housing. My box is modified Newmission, snorkel delete, etc., and has been tested in multiple configurations, to include directing air at the plenum to remove vaccum (to simulate driving at speed). The lid-off information is actually relayed from Red's dyno info. I can't honestly remember if I tested that way or not, though I'm pretty sure I did. I would have to get all of the original files to see as we are nearing or over 30 pulls now.
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