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Old 08-31-2012, 06:48 PM   #31
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What I don't understand is why some cars seem to be just fine and others are troublesome. Even when operating the same software version and built around the same time. Are some us just fussier or could there be that much variation in the hardware? Or is this the dreaded adaptive learning gone wrong?

Sometime these things seem almost like teenagers: they get sick, they heal, they learn the wrong lessons, become petulant...
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Old 08-31-2012, 09:34 PM   #32
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I'm no mechanic but I plan on doing this myself. I figured that if I can put on winter tires myself on my car, I can swap an air filter. I think it's a 4 screws removal to get the air filter lid off, do the swap and bolt the lid back on.
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Old 08-31-2012, 09:43 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by FordCustomerService View Post
Hey everyone -

If you've had the 12B37 program completed on your transmission and are still experiencing issues, please PM me your VIN, mileage, phone number, and dealer name; I'll escalate this with the Customer Service Manager of your regions. If you've worked with a CSM before, I'll document it for our engineering rep.

Where did you obtain this drive cycle, dan50?

Have a great Labor Day weekend,

Thomas
Hey Thomas,

Send you a PM about this. Also, Thanks for the follow up. I had 12B37 done around the end of May 2012 and the tranny worked very, very well for a few weeks. I have then notified my dealer about the tranny reverting back to it's bad behavior. My dealer must be pretty darn good as he was able to establish a diagnostic via email an told me my tranny was working just fine...
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Old 08-31-2012, 09:52 PM   #34
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Is there something wrong with the adaptive learning, or is it learning bad habits from the drivers, but if that was the case then why bother with adaptive learning and just stick with a set shift point rather than custom tailoring the programming to the unit and its driving conditions?

I don't know, since mine shifts about how I would expect it to, early and often up at light throttle, medium throttle raises the shift points depending on how far you push it, if you coast down and its downshifting all the time but then suddenly accelerate it holds the lower gear to higher revs as it accelerates and readies the next gear.

Maybe they should have pulled a Fiat/Chryco and given an option for a basic planetary gearset automatic with a torque converter, but it would be less efficient because of the energy lost through torque converter. It would also be less desirable to me. The 1.4L Fiat engine is mated only to the 6MT or the 6DCT which is very similar to the Ford Getrag DCT-250/DPS6.

Once it's learned the clutch touch points and gear positions it could just shift according to speed and load, but that would be far too easy apparently.
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Old 08-31-2012, 11:32 PM   #35
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It's not just the shift points, it's HOW it shifts. Mine literally jerks into gear, slips into gear, and sometimes sputters in a gear (or neutral I think) before finally shifting into the next gear. Today it was absolutely terrible.....and the behavior inconsistent from one day to the next, but seems to be really bad the hotter it gets outside. It was pretty warm today.
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Old 08-31-2012, 11:35 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dan50 View Post
While I have no personal experience with it, oiling the K&N filters seems to be a bit of an art and can cause problems if done incorrectly. Too much oil can foul the MAF, too little reduces the quality of filtration. I think these should be limited to the province of the skilled or the brave, not the novice.
It's not rocket science... The filter cleaner is a spray-on cleaner that cuts the filter oil and cleans the dust build-up. You spray it on, leave it a few minutes, then spray it off with water. Takes about 5 mins to do.

You then let the filter dry in the sun for an hour or so, then spray it lightly with a coat of K&N filter oil. The oil is a different color than the filter, so it's easy to know if you're covering it properly. It takes light coat, so all you're doing is making sure that the filter is coated uniformly so that dust and debris stick in the oil before passing through the filter.

I've owned K&N filters in many of my vehicles over the years, and I can honestly say that I've never experienced a problem with any of them. I like to clean my filter about twice a year, so it saves a ton of money over the life of the vehicle from those paper filters that cost $10-15 apiece.
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Old 08-31-2012, 11:49 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JesseE1981 View Post
It's not just the shift points, it's HOW it shifts. Mine literally jerks into gear, slips into gear, and sometimes sputters in a gear (or neutral I think) before finally shifting into the next gear. Today it was absolutely terrible.....and the behavior inconsistent from one day to the next, but seems to be really bad the hotter it gets outside. It was pretty warm today.
I see, I wonder why some like mine do not exhibit these symptoms. It shifts quickly through the gears at light throttle, almost imperceptibly, although with heavier throttle applications it shifts at higher revs just the same as it does with light throttle. That is to say the way it is meant to be as far as I can tell. However since I'm use to having to pay attention to this while driving a manual I can still tell when it shifts by feel.

Today it was in the 90s according to the car on the way home from work. I've driven in similar weather but in stop and go traffic and even then mine seems to not act up, but its also never been updated, having been assembled fairly early in the Job 2 builds, but in the second year of 2012 production, (4/23/12).

Since 500 miles or so I've been running a k&n drop in air filter which is supposed to help throttle response, but honestly I'm not sure it made that big a difference, the main reason for wanting one was that its reuseable and you can go longer between services of the air filter, if it helps throttle response then that's a nice secondary benefit.

From about 1800 miles I've been experimenting with 93 octane fuel as well, which doesn't seem to have effected the average fuel economy that much but does seem to allow the engine to advance timing and make a small amount of extra power, at least if my memory is correct, but the only way to really tell for sure, apart from the evidence provided in the octane threads would be to run a tank of 87 octane again to verify the difference in feel.

I still find my self driving most of the time in just plain old drive and letting the gearbox do what it wants. Is it possible to confuse things if you're slowing down and then suddenly speed up again? Perhaps, but that's the same as virtually every other gearbox of this type, since it functions sort of as a pre-selector gearbox where the next higher or lower gear should be already spinning and ready to go waiting for the alternate clutch to kick in.

If the car improperly learned the clutch touch points after a hard reset where the battery is removed long enough for the TCM to lose its memory that could cause the clutch pack to slip while it learns where the engagement is. This is why the drive cycle is so important if and when the TCM's keep alive memory is actually wiped rather than just updated.

Some cars were having issues with the actual mechanisms that actuate the gear selection, some were losing clutches due to a leaky gearbox seal coating them in oil. There were software updates to try and change the shift behavior, but arguably not every one is satisfied with either the programming or the gearbox it self. I guess this is why Dodge is going the cumbersome route of offering a hyundai 6 speed auto with the 2.0L i4 which was a Chrysler/Hyundai/Mitsubishi joint venture before Chrysler bought them out, and the DCT mated to the fiat 1.4L engine which is essentially similar to ours and is also a dry clutch system.

It would be frustrating to have issues with a new car, and I'll admit that the Focus isn't necessarily perfect, although mechanically mine's been great so far. Kind of worried about the heated seats not getting terribly warm even on 5 though.
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Old 08-31-2012, 11:56 PM   #38
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Quote:
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If the car improperly learned the clutch touch points after a hard reset where the battery is removed long enough for the TCM to lose its memory that could cause the clutch pack to slip while it learns where the engagement is. This is why the drive cycle is so important if and when the TCM's keep alive memory is actually wiped rather than just updated.
I'm sorry, but an "auto" transmission that is supposed to be fully protected by the software (e.g. preventing travel into too-high or too-low rpm ranges) should not be able to be foiled by the actions of the operator. Ford chose the DCT which is potentially more software-dependent than any transmission to come before it. Therefore the software should guarantee proper operation independent of the driver. Period.
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Old 09-01-2012, 12:09 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suss6052 View Post
Is it possible to confuse things if you're slowing down and then suddenly speed up again? Perhaps, but that's the same as virtually every other gearbox of this type, since it functions sort of as a pre-selector gearbox where the next higher or lower gear should be already spinning and ready to go waiting for the alternate clutch to kick in.
That's exactly the case with the DCT, and probably something Ford should make more clear.

Part of the benefit of the dual clutch transmission is that when one shaft is engaged, the PCM and TCM have already enabled the next expected gear on the disengaged shaft. So if you're in 5th and accelerating, 6th gear is already engaged on the opposite shaft and waiting for the clutch to engage. The point being to prevent the lag between shifts that was normal with a standard automatic transmission.

A sudden change in throttle/speed command forces the transmission to switch from acceleration to deceleration and switch to the next down-shift gear on the shaft that's not engaged. Undoubtedly it happens in fractions of a second, but still could account for much of the lag that people complain about.
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Old 09-01-2012, 12:12 AM   #40
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Quote:
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I'm sorry, but an "auto" transmission that is supposed to be fully protected by the software (e.g. preventing travel into too-high or too-low rpm ranges) should not be able to be foiled by the actions of the operator. Ford chose the DCT which is potentially more software-dependent than any transmission to come before it. Therefore the software should guarantee proper operation independent of the driver. Period.
Look, I'm not disagreeing that for the majority of people who just view the car as an appliance and stick that lever thing into D the car should just go normally. Essentially its all contained within a black box to the majority of the public, gas goes in and the car is expected to just drive.

I didn't design the transmission, but it seems likely that there is a minimum calibration necessary (which should allegedly occur the first time the car is started but before setting off after a power reset), that should not require the driver to act in a certain way. I think most normal automatics also have a certain need to learn where the ranges are, but since most are hydraulically controlled this is virtually imperceptible to the end customer.

I like my DCT, but if it was acting like crap I certainly would understand the hatred for the technology.

If they had used the 6F35 I would have bought the 5 speed instead (since a 6 mt isn't available on the Focus here in less than the ST), that's how little I trust Ford to build a reliable FWD automatic transmission with a torque converter and planetary gearsets. That is of course due in majority to the failures I've witnessed from products coming from that assembly plant over the years. Sure there is one or two good examples, my Grandfather's Mariner has a 6F35 and is ok so far but it has less than 30k miles in 3.5+ years, he also knows some one with a similar Escape with just over 80k miles. Neither of which is terribly high. The first AX4N in a 1998 Ford Taurus, that failed on my family failed at 106k just as the car was paid off. The input shaft for the fluid pump that circulated oil between the torque converter and gearbox had sheared the welds and the two parts were spinning at different speeds and not working. My brother's old 03 failed the same way but at 114k miles.

I like the direct mechanical feel of having a clutch involved in the process, however I'd like select shift to shift quicker when I hit the switch, but at low speeds its harder to beat the computer at least up until 5th gear if you're trying to get it to shift at the lowest point or skip to higher gears for better fuel economy when doing a steady 35+ mi/hr.
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