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Old 08-31-2012, 04:47 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by zippy75 View Post
Ok, went to the dealership and drove a PowerShift yesterday. Seems to drive fine and shifts smoothly, but it definitely does drop the revs as soon as it can so that the second you come to any incline it has to change a few gears. I have a feeling that a stick would be a lot more enjoyable with an engine this small.
Just drive it in Select Shift mode. You can keep it in any gear you want, subject to min and max rpm limitations.
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Old 08-31-2012, 08:04 PM   #12
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Greater mechanical efficiency, as well as better driving dynamics and greater feel. There is nothing wrong with the DCT from a technical stand point, although they really needed to better inform the customers at the dealership level what it is and why its different.
Well that's just wrong. If that were true there wouldn't have been multiple software "fixes" or, as Motor Trend reported, "some rolling changes to the hardware that have been rolled out on more recently built cars, including revised "long-shoulder rivets" in the clutch itself". Insinuating that there have been other hardware changes we don't know about to try to address the DCT's erratic behavior.
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Old 08-31-2012, 08:21 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by kam327 View Post
Well that's just wrong. If that were true there wouldn't have been multiple software "fixes" or, as Motor Trend reported, "some rolling changes to the hardware that have been rolled out on more recently built cars, including revised "long-shoulder rivets" in the clutch itself". Insinuating that there have been other hardware changes we don't know about to try to address the DCT's erratic behavior.
Note I said with the dct as in the concept, not necessarily this particular execution, although mine has not given me any problems to date, even if I switch from driving with a lighter foot or playing with manual mode to going flat out to anything in between. Occasionally it does feel like a manual with a heavy flywheel, but that's usually only in manual mode in low gears coasting down in heavy traffic, which is where I'd expect it to behave this way. In D or S auto it does not behave that way and tends to be very smooth. Way better than any torque converter automatic that Ford had ever put in any FWD car. I like mine and have no real complaints about it.

Manufacturing process changes and hardware changes indicate that there was a concern with the original parts, but not necessarily that they were defective. Software updates to try and mimic a conventional automatic and appease the general public were deemed necessary if they wanted to continue to sell it as a normal automatic. Since the majority of people who buy cars with an automatic transmission expect it to behave exactly like the torque converter backed standard auto gearbox since that's what they are used to. So they tend to creep forward in traffic and expect the car not to roll back on a hill ever. Even though in a manual these things are expected and one needs to compensate for them. This is also why if you were to creep up a hill at low speeds for a long time they warned that you may burn the clutch out so they put in the transmission hot, stop warnings, et al.
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Old 08-31-2012, 08:53 PM   #14
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Note I said with the dct as in the concept, not necessarily this particular execution...
No you didn't man. You said technically there is nothing wrong with Ford's DCT. And you routinely (along with many others) blame all the DCT's issues on a malinformed public. You're expressing your opinion, and that's fine, got no problem with that, but it is an opinion.

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Manufacturing process changes and hardware changes indicate that there was a concern with the original parts, but not necessarily that they were defective. Software updates to try and mimic a conventional automatic and appease the general public were deemed necessary if they wanted to continue to sell it as a normal automatic.
Yeah I pay no attention to those complaining about roll back on hills and lack of creep and the like. I totally agree there are some acceptable traits of the DCT that are different than TC trannies. But I'm talking about shift quality, which really should've been 99% baked from day 1 out of the factory. But there are many posters who have reported after 12B37 that their overall shift quality was vastly improved. Why would shift quality improve after an update if it was designed merely to address hill roll back and creep traits? It's clear that Ford is issuing updates to address real shift quality issues.

Then there are those like me whose shift quality notably worsened after the update. Again, why should it get noticeably worse after an update that was supposedly just to adress hill roll back and creep and such.

As for hardware, Motor Trend reported that the "revised long-shoulder rivets" were added to reduce chatter/vibration during launch. That indicates to me a design flaw that was not caught during testing.

Just my opinion...
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Old 08-31-2012, 09:08 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by suss6052 View Post
Note I said with the dct as in the concept, not necessarily this particular execution, although mine has not given me any problems to date, even if I switch from driving with a lighter foot or playing with manual mode to going flat out to anything in between. Occasionally it does feel like a manual with a heavy flywheel, but that's usually only in manual mode in low gears coasting down in heavy traffic, which is where I'd expect it to behave this way. In D or S auto it does not behave that way and tends to be very smooth. Way better than any torque converter automatic that Ford had ever put in any FWD car. I like mine and have no real complaints about it.

Manufacturing process changes and hardware changes indicate that there was a concern with the original parts, but not necessarily that they were defective. Software updates to try and mimic a conventional automatic and appease the general public were deemed necessary if they wanted to continue to sell it as a normal automatic. Since the majority of people who buy cars with an automatic transmission expect it to behave exactly like the torque converter backed standard auto gearbox since that's what they are used to. So they tend to creep forward in traffic and expect the car not to roll back on a hill ever. Even though in a manual these things are expected and one needs to compensate for them. This is also why if you were to creep up a hill at low speeds for a long time they warned that you may burn the clutch out so they put in the transmission hot, stop warnings, et al.

"not necessarily this execution " ?
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Old 08-31-2012, 09:39 PM   #16
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"not necessarily this execution " ?
Well that seems to be the general consensus of those who dislike the gearbox.

Personally I'm of the opinion that this gearbox (the DCT250/DPS6/ PowerShift dry dual clutch automated manual) is a good gearbox. I personally prefer it over the 6F35 in the Escape and Fusion.

I've had good experiences with each and every one of the five I had driven with various mileages, from 3 miles at the delivery of my car which has over 3700 miles to date; to a rental car with over 17k miles at the time which was a regular (non-select shift) version from March 2011 with an in service date of 4/11.

I don't doubt that there is a possibility that there were some cases of mechanical failures evidenced by reports of leaking gearboxes destroying clutches, and metal shavings found in the transmission oil in cases where the gearbox was allegedly not synchonizing the gear changes properly.

However you can't rule out the actions of the driver, particularly in heavy stop and go traffic if you're constantly applying and releasing the 1-3-5-R clutch at low speed by creeping forward in stop and go traffic like they used to with a torque converter which is a wet coupling that allows for slippage without excessive damage where as a slipping clutch is a clutch that is wearing out quickly. Although even when I've driven both a manual (my old prizm for over 44k miles that already had 191k miles on it with x amount on the clutch when I got it); and my DCT in heavy stop and go traffic I try to leave a bit more space to be able to try and maintain at least 5-10 mph rather than constantly stopping. However this is not always possible, but even then I don't seem to have the issues that others have. Is that due to me driving mine differently even in drive without thinking about it? Or is it due to some software or mechanical differences either in the adaptive learning or the clutch break in?

Its just my opinion, and it seems that the majority of cars were fine, but some are reporting conflicting results to the latest software updates with essentially the same car, which doesn't make sense. E.X. a raised shift point into 6th that doesn't apply to every car. My car was built with the latest firmware for the engine and transmission but it still shifts into 6th at 35 mph at very light or moderate throttle/ steady speed, but people like Kam reports a shift point nearer to 41 mph which means staying in 5th longer and using more fuel in town.
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Old 08-31-2012, 11:48 PM   #17
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...However you can't rule out the actions of the driver, particularly in heavy stop and go traffic if you're constantly applying and releasing the 1-3-5-R clutch at low speed by creeping forward in stop and go traffic like they used to with a torque converter which is a wet coupling that allows for slippage without excessive damage where as a slipping clutch is a clutch that is wearing out quickly....
I'm sorry, but an "auto" transmission that is supposed to be fully protected by the software (e.g. preventing travel into too-high or too-low rpm ranges) should not be able to be foiled by the actions of the operator. Ford chose the DCT which is potentially more software-dependent than any transmission to come before it. Therefore the software should guarantee proper operation independent of the driver. Period.

Suss, I don't know the full extent of your background with Ford, but I've been a Ford driver for around 24 years now beginning with my 1980 Thunderbird 4.9L and, even given that, I'm not going to easily give Ford a pass on the DCT. I'm loyal to them (so far) but I demand good (not even excellent) quality from them in return.
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Old 09-01-2012, 12:06 AM   #18
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I have no doubt that DCTs will continue to gain in popularity simply because they're more efficient. Over time they will improve, and customers will get used to whatever differences remain in feel between them and TC automatics.

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Old 09-01-2012, 12:33 AM   #19
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I'm sorry, but an "auto" transmission that is supposed to be fully protected by the software (e.g. preventing travel into too-high or too-low rpm ranges) should not be able to be foiled by the actions of the operator. Ford chose the DCT which is potentially more software-dependent than any transmission to come before it. Therefore the software should guarantee proper operation independent of the driver. Period.

Suss, I don't know the full extent of your background with Ford, but I've been a Ford driver for around 24 years now beginning with my 1980 Thunderbird 4.9L and, even given that, I'm not going to easily give Ford a pass on the DCT. I'm loyal to them (so far) but I demand good (not even excellent) quality from them in return.
Since I have no connection to the people who designed, tested or built the car I can't say I know 100% how they operate. So I won't give them a free pass either, but I will say that so far *gently taps on the soft touch dash* the DCT hasn't given me any issues even in heavy traffic, but I do try and keep space around the car, which isn't always possible.

I have more concerns with why a badge wasn't properly attached which cost the company around $41 in warranty repair work so far, or why the heated seats don't seem to get very warm on their hottest setting.

The DCT is presumed to be a fly in the ointment, but I would feel this way if they had instead used the conventional 6F35 as I do not give their Van Dyke Assembly plant a free pass because they have built the majority of the shoddy FWD transmissions that Ford had used since the 1980s.

The primary reason I got the automatic this time was that the car only came equipped as such in the U.S. in this trim level and color.

If I was willing to go with grey or silver I might have ended up with an SE sport 5-speed hatch or sedan as rear disk brakes and alloy wheels were on the must have list, but so too was the specific paint color, Frosted Glass, which really narrowed down the options to the SEL (sedan or hatch), since that was the only permutation that allowed for this.

I was half torn towards going for a much more basic model and nearly paying for the whole thing up front in cash since I was putting down such a large down payment anyway.

The only Ford I had actually legally owned was a 2003 CVPI, but for a time I was responsible for daily driving my grandmothers 1999 Ford Taurus, and before that I was driving my Father's 98 that blew up the transmission at 106k, and was never quite right again after the rebuild. The tach on that car would shoot up to 6k and it would not shift properly until you let off the throttle near the end of its days with us.

My Crown vic was an ex taxi and ex city of Chicago cop car so it had been beaten to hell, but it was meant to be a project car that never got finished before I had to get rid of it.
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Old 09-01-2012, 05:38 AM   #20
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Ok,
The Focus rides and handles nicely, but I'm going from a Mazda 6 with a V6 and after driving the Focus I couldn't help but feel that I'm going to be downgrading. There are certain things on the Focus that scream "cheap", like the carpeting, the rear seats, the trunk liner, etc.
Cam
Curious what you found cheap about the rear seats?
Also the carpeting and trunk liner. Can you elaborate what level of differenc there is between the Mazda 6 carpeting and trunk liner.
Pictures would be great to see what the differences are, be it thickness, premium textures etc.
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