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Old 08-14-2012, 11:47 AM   #571
Napalm
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when you replace 10% of your gasoline volume with something that is less powerfull - the engine has to use more to maintain the energy demand of moving the car.

pretty simple. But your switch of tires and wheels probably contributed to the significance of the reduction. I would expect around a 6-9% reduction in fuel econ.

ALSO Cessna - I read your websites and found some of their articles interesting. Oddly their own article shows how ethanol produced today (regardless of wet or dry method) makes less energy per gallon than it does to make it. Thus it is still a net deficit.


Now on the bit about conservation: how many of you use LED, CFL light bulbs in your house. Use High efficiency Ceiling fans. Replaced your A/C, Heater, or Heat Pump with a SEER 15 unit.

anyone.

How many of you go around checking the seals on your house, caulking around your windows etc.

turn off lights when you aren't in the room, or reduce your thermostat settings when you are at work. Not to mention the idea of walking to work or the store - which is commendable.
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Old 08-14-2012, 11:58 AM   #572
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Napalm View Post

Now on the bit about conservation: how many of you use LED, CFL light bulbs in your house. Use High efficiency Ceiling fans. Replaced your A/C, Heater, or Heat Pump with a SEER 15 unit.

anyone.

How many of you go around checking the seals on your house, caulking around your windows etc.

turn off lights when you aren't in the room, or reduce your thermostat settings when you are at work. Not to mention the idea of walking to work or the store - which is commendable.

I rent my house, so I don't have full control, nor am I a greenie, I just don't like wasting money, so I use CFL lights, my A/C is set to 83 when I am at work.
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Old 08-14-2012, 12:19 PM   #573
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Napalm View Post
when you replace 10% of your gasoline volume with something that is less powerfull - the engine has to use more to maintain the energy demand of moving the car.

pretty simple. But your switch of tires and wheels probably contributed to the significance of the reduction. I would expect around a 6-9% reduction in fuel econ.

ALSO Cessna - I read your websites and found some of their articles interesting. Oddly their own article shows how ethanol produced today (regardless of wet or dry method) makes less energy per gallon than it does to make it. Thus it is still a net deficit.


Now on the bit about conservation: how many of you use LED, CFL light bulbs in your house. Use High efficiency Ceiling fans. Replaced your A/C, Heater, or Heat Pump with a SEER 15 unit.

anyone.

How many of you go around checking the seals on your house, caulking around your windows etc.

turn off lights when you aren't in the room, or reduce your thermostat settings when you are at work. Not to mention the idea of walking to work or the store - which is commendable.

I use CFLs and LEDs, and only use them at night when possible. Ambient light (sunlight) is cool.

The A/C was replaced last month.

I avoid ethanol since it's a net energy waster and deprives people from eating the same foodstuff that's wasted to make the net-loss fuel as well. The ideas behind ethanol are okay, but using corn is not the best substitute, especially as oil and gas are used to harvest it (and petrochemical fertilizers...)

it's all good.
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Old 08-14-2012, 02:41 PM   #574
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Napalm, Just reread the article about Dr Wang from Argonne Lab and all I saw was .78 million btu's petroleum to make 1 million btu's of ethanol. In the ethanol plant newsletter that came yesterday, an article about what if you anti ethanol folks get your way by waiving the RFS, RIN's, or what ever, what would happen. First the oil refiners would not be able to make sub-octane gasoline anymore. The lowest they could make is 87 octane. That would reduce the total gallons of gas from a barrel of crude. I think that would mean more crude would be used, correct me if I'm wrong. With ethanol they are also able to pan off some nasty molecules----I think the aromatics and maybe benzene. Okay, I think if we used more crude the price would go up but maybe you are right that more barrels used then the price would go down---I don't know about that. Now we have reduced the price of corn but the writer of the article did figure that because more petroleum fuel needs to be produced, fuel would be more expensive, so producing and hauling the food to the grocery store would cost more so that prices in the store would still be high. So I guess if the author is correct then farmers will make less on the sales of the corn, there will be less incentive to produce more corn, groceries will still be high and the oil companies should be making more money than ever---maybe that's the way it should be and you'd be very happy I'm sure.
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Old 08-14-2012, 02:55 PM   #575
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unfocused1, do you know what manure is? Look it up, it is actually better than commercial fertilizer and is derived from distillers grain fed to livestock. I have a 1000 head cattle confinement(where steaks and hamburger come from) right next to my corn field---no commercial fertilizer needed. The bushels of corn I produce are very,very efficient for making ethanol. Don't know if you know this, but at the ethanol plant, about 25,000 btu's of energy(natural gas and electricity) make a 76,000 btu gallon of ethanol. Oh, one more thing, one ethanol plant I'm an investor in uses landfill gas from the dump next door---doesn't get much better than that in my opinion.
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Old 08-14-2012, 03:01 PM   #576
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Cooper added that consumers won’t see any significant price drops in their grocery bills if the RFS is waived. He highlighted recent research that shows the waiver would produce only a 4.6 percent reduction in corn prices at the commodity level, which translates to even less for consumers when you consider that only 14 cents of every food dollar spent goes toward the actual commodity… transportation costs, support, marketing, etc. make up the other 86 cents. And he noted that consumers would end up paying a lot more for gasoline as ethanol is credited with lowering gas prices $.84-$1.07 per gallon. “Really what’s driving higher gas prices, as you would expect, are higher crude oil prices and some of the problems in the refining sector.”
http://domesticfuel.com/2012/08/14/r...es-for-anyone/
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Old 08-14-2012, 04:16 PM   #577
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I do use CFL's .. shut my lights off most of the time when i leave... but if its hot, I"m running my A/C to where Imma gonna be comfortable... An old neighbor once told me, that you don't turn your heat way way down in the winter, so why turn the A/C way way up in the summer and be uncomfortable??

The only reason I run the "green" stuff i do, is because I'm cheap.. and any little bit i can save on my electric bill is all that much more I can use to do mod's for my Focus... <Grin>
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Old 08-15-2012, 08:22 AM   #578
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Quote:
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Cooper added that consumers won’t see any significant price drops in their grocery bills if the RFS is waived. He highlighted recent research that shows the waiver would produce only a 4.6 percent reduction in corn prices at the commodity level, which translates to even less for consumers when you consider that only 14 cents of every food dollar spent goes toward the actual commodity… transportation costs, support, marketing, etc. make up the other 86 cents. And he noted that consumers would end up paying a lot more for gasoline as ethanol is credited with lowering gas prices $.84-$1.07 per gallon. “Really what’s driving higher gas prices, as you would expect, are higher crude oil prices and some of the problems in the refining sector.”
http://domesticfuel.com/2012/08/14/r...es-for-anyone/
You posted some interesting info here most of which seem at least plausible. I'm a little skeptical of the $1 /per gallon less due to Ethanol. I would be curious to know the estimated actual total cost to produce a gallon of Ethanol. Over the past few years, I have filled up at a station that carries E85. As gasoline (E10) has cycled down to $2 dollars and back up to $4. The E85 has always just tracked at .30 cents under the E10. So, were they selling E85 at a loss at $2? Are they making a great margin now getting $3.79?
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Old 08-15-2012, 08:47 AM   #579
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Update for first tank of 89 vs 87 in my blind test in my wife's Focus.

Result .... no change in mileage whatsoever. Same exact numbers.

I filled up yesterday and 89 was 22 cents more per gallon compared to 10 cents per gallon more when I started the test. I put in regular.

Sorry guys ... I don't see a difference in either performance OR mileage with higher octane gasoline. I'll try it again though when gas prices get lower and the difference between the grades is about a dime like it should be.

Maybe you gotta do it for more than one tank for the car to 'learn' about it's new higher octane fuel.

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Old 08-15-2012, 09:04 AM   #580
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Pretty much everyone that has done the test has agreed to the fact that the ECU needs about 3 tanks. After that is the best time to drop back down to 87 in order to feel the performance loss.

A 22 cent difference is still less than $2.75 over the cost of refilling a completely bone-dry tank...less than $8.25 for three tanks (approx 1000 miles?) or less than $.00825 cost per-mile over regular...and that's assuming a 0% increase in mpg for the duration.
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