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Old 08-01-2012, 12:53 PM   #551
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Originally Posted by riparke View Post
"Then when BIG OIL is back in total monopolistic control they can crucify you like they have done in the past"

Give me a break they have always been in control, why do you think you are paying today's prices at the pump? Ethanol is just another farm subsidie.
You think we are BIG OIL lovers. FAR from the truth. I just want a sane, sensible alternative. For instance electric cars fueled by nuclear plant generated electricity. Just because big oil is evil doesn't not mean I want a BAD alternative subsidized by my tax dollars ..helping to bankrupt the USA.

Ethanol cannot be produced for any lower cost than the current gouge prices for gasoline and it's not even really that 'green' as someone already pointed out.

Note: I have nothing personal again ethanol producers. If they can make a go of it in the free market, all the power to them. My father in law is a corn grower so I have no joy in seeing farmers hurt. But we just cant afford to prop up industries that don't make sense.
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Old 08-01-2012, 01:01 PM   #552
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Originally Posted by BiggerBoat View Post
You think we are BIG OIL lovers. FAR from the truth. I just want a sane, sensible alternative. For instance electric cars fueled by nuclear plant generated electricity. Just because big oil is evil doesn't not mean I want a BAD alternative subsidized by my tax dollars ..helping to bankrupt the USA.

Ethanol cannot be produced for any lower cost than the current gouge prices for gasoline and it's not even really that 'green' as someone already pointed out.

Note: I have nothing personal again ethanol producers. If they can make a go of it in the free market, all the power to them. My father in law is a corn grower so I have no joy in seeing farmers hurt. But we just cant afford to prop up industries that don't make sense.
I don't know if you realize this, but the only so called subsidy the ethanol industry gets since last January 1st is the Renewable Fuel Standard that requires BIG OIL to blend a certain amount of ethanol into the gasoline supply in this country cutting into their demand. One plant I'm in is exporting to Europe most of it's production since fuel in high there and it is still profitable with no subsidy what so ever. By the way, I like tuna and hope it isn't coming from near Japan. Just think of the nuclear waste that nobody is talking about much.
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Old 08-01-2012, 01:53 PM   #553
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I don't know if you realize this, but the only so called subsidy the ethanol industry gets since last January 1st is the Renewable Fuel Standard that requires BIG OIL to blend a certain amount of ethanol into the gasoline supply in this country cutting into their demand. One plant I'm in is exporting to Europe most of it's production since fuel in high there and it is still profitable with no subsidy what so ever. By the way, I like tuna and hope it isn't coming from near Japan. Just think of the nuclear waste that nobody is talking about much.
Exporting Ethanol to Europe? Did NOT know that ...interesting. Makes sense now that I think about it, since that pay about $7/gallon if I recall correctly.

The Japan nuc plants that melted were old and due to be taken offline the year the Tsunami hit. Many US plants are getting scary-old too. We have not built a new one here since the emotional hysterics of 3 Mile Island in the 70s. With today's technology, we should be able to build good ones although they would be hugely expensive, especially if the Feds OVER regulate like they do everything else.
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Old 08-01-2012, 04:52 PM   #554
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Although I don't believe this for a minute ... I'm gonna give it a try. My wife drives the car primarily, She averages a rock solid 33.5 MPG per tankful on her commute. I put 89 in the car today, and am not going to tell her. We'll see if it makes any difference in MPG over the next 3 or 4 tanks. After 3 or 4 tanks of 89 ... I'll try some 93 for the same amount of time.

We shall see .... :D Although I don't believe there will be any difference ... I truly hope that there is.

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Old 08-01-2012, 07:03 PM   #555
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Although I don't believe this for a minute ... I'm gonna give it a try. My wife drives the car primarily, She averages a rock solid 33.5 MPG per tankful on her commute. I put 89 in the car today, and am not going to tell her. We'll see if it makes any difference in MPG over the next 3 or 4 tanks. After 3 or 4 tanks of 89 ... I'll try some 93 for the same amount of time.

We shall see .... :D Although I don't believe there will be any difference ... I truly hope that there is.

REV
I hope it works for you. I really didn't think that there would be any difference but figured I would try it out just to see before throwing my opinion out.

That was over 5k miles ago...

The best bet, if you fill it up for the wife, is to wait until a few tanks of 93 have been run through and then swap her back to 87 and see if she thinks there is something wrong with the car
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Old 08-02-2012, 11:09 AM   #556
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In some ways I hope my beloved ethanol goes away. Then when BIG OIL is back in total monopolistic control they can crucify you like they have done in the past with high prices and maybe an embargo like I experienced in 1973. It's pretty much like the drug dealer and the addict. I really hope you get to experience 10 gallon limits on even/odd days someday.
LOL. nice opinion. so questions first.

1) why did you not buy a prius?
2) why did you not buy an all electric car?
3) what did you drive before?
4) cessna1 huh. cause private planes are the pinnacle of fuel frugal transportation. do you own one, fly one, wrench on one. and which one. (serious questions - I R aviation engineer)

To that end.

yeah you think fuel companies aren't raking in the marketing BS that is ethanol fuel. They sell you less gasoline, charge you as much for it, and you are buying it up like its sliced bread and the year is 1843.

So what exactly is happening here. Ethanol production uses more energy than it produces when burned. but hey that doesn't matter does it.

Just like Hydrogen fuel cells. works great on space equipement because of safety concerns and weight. But where does pure hydrogen come from.

Serous question? the most abundant element in the universe, rarely occurs in nature ON PLANET EARTH - alone. IE its always attached to something - like Oxygen- thus again net loss of energy production.

Meanwhile - the ideal fuel is either Low Sulphur Diesel, or Jet A-1. Most energy per gram, least amount of necessary refining. Works great in turbine engines. Which by the way is the most efficient power, per lb engine design around. And if you have to I perfer the development of BioDiesel. derived from Soy bean, corn and other farm waste and processed by enzymes. Not from the actual food source - the waste from the food source.

So in the ideal world - you need a gas turbine turning an electrical generator (because both items work best when running on a certain RPM) and run it on biodiesel, and carry battery but a small one and use 4 electric motors to drive and brake the wheels.

but then every sedan would need to cost around 120K per.

Sorry I'm in a ranty mood this week.
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Old 08-02-2012, 11:31 AM   #557
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Napalm, not sure if I should even waste the energy to type this but. You and others on this forum keep saying it takes more energy to make ethanol than you get back----open your eyes and ears and realize that in the beginning it was like that but not today. Do you think the 2012 Focus is comparable to the Model T---I'm thinking you do. As for the turbine, the guy my dad sold his aerial application business to started with an Air Tractor with a P and W radial engine that burned gasoline---about 30 to 35 gallons per hour. He updated to a turbine producing the same power, doing the same job with Jet-A. It burns closer to 50 gallons per hour. You are right about less refining energy for Jet-A but I bet it isn't that much less to compensate for the increased fuel burn. The biggest plus for the turbine is safety---they are a lot more reliable.
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Old 08-02-2012, 01:14 PM   #558
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I am running the tests now. I put cruise control on 65 and drive for many miles. So far I am getting 40-42 with 87 in 86 degree temps.

At 60 mph, I get 45-46 mph. I have a log in Excel.

2012 Focus with DCT.

When this tank is gone, I will try again with 93.
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Old 08-02-2012, 07:15 PM   #559
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We have another thread discussing this?

I run 93. I put in 87 once and thought I would have to push my car down the road. On top of that I typically see 3 mpg over 87. It costs less than $3 a tank at my station, and adds up to be a $70 savings over the course of 15k miles. Not a ton of cash, but run 3 consecutive full tanks of 93 in your car and if you don't see improvement then switch back. If switching back to 87 doesn't immediately make you want to switch back to 93, then keep running it. You will only be out $10 over the span of about 1k miles.

I think what we really need are moar threads about this topic.
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Old 08-06-2012, 03:15 PM   #560
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That turbine makes more power for less weight and I bet his turbine aircraft carries more in the air, and I bet it also flies faster.

So I'm sure its not exactly an apples to apples comparision. Meanwhile that Air tractor used a PT-6 turbo prop IIRC. Not the most fuel efficient turbine ever made but that probably doesn't matter.

And while we are wasting electrons here.

Prove to me, that ethanol make more energy than it requires for its production. start with the corn in the field.

OH and that's right. CORN. not the sugar cane ethanol like they use in Brazil. CORN, as is used in the US of A for the majority of the fuel ethanol sold.

Yes I will admit that sugar cane ethanol does come out with a higher yield, but that's not what we are buying in America.

So please - prove me wrong.
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