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Old 07-31-2012, 01:13 PM   #541
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Thanks for the info
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Old 07-31-2012, 03:34 PM   #542
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Originally Posted by dan03833 View Post
If your engine is not knocking and/or pinging there will be no difference in using 87 Vs 93 octane. The only thing the higher octane would do is reduce a tendancy for pre-detonation (knocking/pinging). The engine is designed/engineered to use 87, anything more would be a waste of money.
While what you say is absolutely true, there is a recent problem with this generalization. Most pump gasoline in NA is now supplemented with up to 10% ethanol at low octane numbers. Higher octane gas typically does not blend with ethanol.

Yes, you get better mileage with higher octane gas, but it's not because of the octane rating, it's because of the lack of ethanol.

Cheap ethanol blended gas is a false economy.
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Old 07-31-2012, 03:47 PM   #543
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While what you say is absolutely true, there is a recent problem with this generalization. Most pump gasoline in NA is now supplemented with up to 10% ethanol at low octane numbers. Higher octane gas typically does not blend with ethanol.

Yes, you get better mileage with higher octane gas, but it's not because of the octane rating, it's because of the lack of ethanol.

Cheap ethanol blended gas is a false economy.
I disagree. There is no benefit of using higher octane if your car cannot advance timing to take advantage of the slower, more controlled burn. I am curious to your data that supports the claim that the same different octanes located at the same station have different ethanol levels. I don't think I've heard of this before.

Our Armada doesn't get better mileage on 93 and, in fact, actually gets worse mileage for the fuel not getting burned completely. No power increase, nothing. But there is a mod called 2 degree (self explanatory) that will help get better fuel economy and power off of 89 over 87.

Mathematically, based on my un-scientific tests, I will save a total of $70-ish over the course of an entire year (15k mi) by using 93. While that is nothing to write home about, I will ultimately pay less and have better performance to boot.
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Old 08-01-2012, 12:08 AM   #544
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I caught part of a news story on the radio the other day regarding the farmers/ranchers trying to get the ethanol mandate repealed due the fact that the corn crop has been wiped out this year...and they are afraid they won't be able to feed their livestock due to higher corn prices.
Anybody else hear something about this?
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Old 08-01-2012, 08:19 AM   #545
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I caught part of a news story on the radio the other day regarding the farmers/ranchers trying to get the ethanol mandate repealed due the fact that the corn crop has been wiped out this year...and they are afraid they won't be able to feed their livestock due to higher corn prices.
Anybody else hear something about this?
Depends on what group of farmers you talk to. I'm a farmer and I don't want it changed and was talking to my neighbor that feeds a lot of cattle and pigs just yesterday. He doesn't want it changed because he feeds a lot of the by-products that come from the local ethanol plants. The guys you hear wanting change are the Texas and other places that aren't close to the ethanol plants. They want it like it used to be---the gov't subsidized us corn farmers to grow dirt cheap corn and then it got railed or trucked to the far away feedlots. BIG FOOD wants it like it used to be also---- 5 pennies worth of corn in a box of cereal instead of the dime's worth now. Tyson and the food mfg's are some of the greediest entities on the face of the planet.
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Old 08-01-2012, 08:55 AM   #546
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Originally Posted by LHolden View Post
I caught part of a news story on the radio the other day regarding the farmers/ranchers trying to get the ethanol mandate repealed due the fact that the corn crop has been wiped out this year...and they are afraid they won't be able to feed their livestock due to higher corn prices.
Anybody else hear something about this?
http://www.cattlenetwork.com/cattle-...163095506.html

Hurumph. One more reason to hate ethanol. It's effected by weather.



“The federal government’s subsidization of the ethanol industry has quite frankly created a domino effect that is hurting consumers,” Goodlatte says. “With the increased use of food and feed stocks diverted for ethanol, the higher cost for these crops is passed on to livestock and food producers. In turn, consumers see that increased price reflected on the price of food on the grocery store shelves.” --Remember in November
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Old 08-01-2012, 09:23 AM   #547
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That bit about higher octane fuel not having ethanol is a half truth.

Some refineries don't put ethanol in their 93 octane test blend, some do.

Irony: Ethanol actually raises the effective knock rating (it burns cooler thus it cools the chamber thus reducing the chance for knock)

So technically you can advance the timing quite a bit with an ethanol blend.

OH and get this - typically on a BTU/gram or specific heat calculation - 87 octane would have more energy than 93 octane. But because of that - it increases knock events thus leading to de-tuning to protect the engine. but only when Comparing pure gasoline to pure gasoline. Adding ethanol to both mixes reduces the total BTU/gram.

Which is why you get more power out of 93 octane. its one of those balancing events.

but remember those Alcohol funny cars. If you pack enough in, and you increase your compression ration, and you increase your spark energy, ethanol will make some impressive power. but you need gallons upon gallons of it.

but hey its green right? regardless that it takes more energy to make than it produces.

Its still green right?

sorry I might get ranty in a bit.
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Old 08-01-2012, 10:33 AM   #548
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but hey its green right? regardless that it takes more energy to make than it produces.

Its still green right?

sorry I might get ranty in a bit.
No apology necessary. I agree totally with your rant.
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Old 08-01-2012, 12:00 PM   #549
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In some ways I hope my beloved ethanol goes away. Then when BIG OIL is back in total monopolistic control they can crucify you like they have done in the past with high prices and maybe an embargo like I experienced in 1973. It's pretty much like the drug dealer and the addict. I really hope you get to experience 10 gallon limits on even/odd days someday.
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Old 08-01-2012, 12:27 PM   #550
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"Then when BIG OIL is back in total monopolistic control they can crucify you like they have done in the past"

Give me a break they have always been in control, why do you think you are paying today's prices at the pump? Ethanol is just another farm subsidie.
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