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Old 07-24-2012, 07:45 PM   #11
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Either way, the dependence on oil needs to stop, but of course the oil industry is too greedy for that to happen, considering GM tried in the 90s with a perfectly viable electric car, of which hundreds or thousands now sit derelict in a lot somewhere because of the greed of the oil industry. Sad that over 10 years later we're finally seeing electric cars and other means of alternative fuels really taking off.
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Old 07-24-2012, 07:56 PM   #12
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Either way, the dependence on oil needs to stop, but of course the oil industry is too greedy for that to happen, considering GM tried in the 90s with a perfectly viable electric car, of which hundreds or thousands now sit derelict in a lot somewhere because of the greed of the oil industry. Sad that over 10 years later we're finally seeing electric cars and other means of alternative fuels really taking off.
Ahhh. The EV-1. Neat little car. I saw one when I was little before GM took them back and crushed them. They crushed them all. GM had a lot of great ideas, like the Fuel Injection in the 1956 Corvette, Oil companies paid them to stop making that. The EV-1, an all Electric car that got decent range and could have been relatively affordable. GM crushed that and Toyota came out with the RAV-4 EV. The original Chevy Volt Concept was a great car, it used a Hydrogen Fuel Cell. GM took the buy out and was pretty much forced to produce the Volt. Now Honda seems to be leading the Hydrogen market with the FCX Clarity, I say leading because they are the only company that have running Hydrogen cars on the road.

I believe Hydrogen is the way to go as far as alternative fuels go.
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Old 07-24-2012, 08:04 PM   #13
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Ahhh. The EV-1. Neat little car. I saw one when I was little before GM took them back and crushed them. They crushed them all. GM had a lot of great ideas, like the Fuel Injection in the 1956 Corvette, Oil companies paid them to stop making that. The EV-1, an all Electric car that got decent range and could have been relatively affordable. GM crushed that and Toyota came out with the RAV-4 EV. The original Chevy Volt Concept was a great car, it used a Hydrogen Fuel Cell. GM took the buy out and was pretty much forced to produce the Volt. Now Honda seems to be leading the Hydrogen market with the FCX Clarity, I say leading because they are the only company that have running Hydrogen cars on the road.

I believe Hydrogen is the way to go as far as alternative fuels go.
They didn't crush them all, they left a couple for museum pieces and left them to universities as long as they promised not to rebuild them/ convert them into running cars. I saw one in person at G.M.I. in one of the garages behind/ underneath the academic building buried under a thick layer of dust/ dirt. I actually was able to open the door and sit in the driver seat. Some of the control modules and other pieces were strewn on the passenger seat. I think the motor might have been on the seat or at least pieces of it. It was powder blue and the interior kind of looked like a saturn.
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Old 07-24-2012, 08:14 PM   #14
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...
Well there is the fact that if the EPA and the government try to force more ethanol in regular gas its better to have the car calibrated to run on it than getting screwed out of being able to drive on account of not being able to get fuel.

...
During World War II, gas was rationed... as it was during the 1970s as well, but for different reasons... since then I've seen SUVs being hawked and paraded around, with little done to consciously conserve what is a valuable fuel source... I'm surprised we don't ration nowadays, but who would believe the reasons behind doing so?

Is government basing its choices and what it is "forcing" solely on its own research, unfettered by lobbyists or other invested interests? Or are corn farmers and other interested industries compelling government?

That aside, from what little I've read -- Ethanol is claimed to be a net loss fuel. Not because one can use it as a foodstuff, but because of the amount of energy needed to grow and harvest it is more than what a converted fuel can provide... which includes petrochemical fertilizers and gas-powered vehicles to more efficiently harvest the stuff since nobody wants to pick it for 10 cents per hour...

The government could be looking at algae or other materials... even hydrogen, which is abundant but if mishandled could be too explosive for safe use - unfortunately... I wonder if algae could even be collected and converted... people talk about it but there's not much in the way of actual development... but corn is still being used, so there are clearly other factors I am not aware of...
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Old 07-24-2012, 09:59 PM   #15
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[QUOTE]What is the point of Flex Fuel?[QUOTE]
I sat in line in 1973 when BIG OIL decided to limit gasoline sales. I'll never forget the even/odd days with a ten gallon limit. Also, ethanol is keeping gas prices down and it is not as corrosive as you think. I've had 50% ethanol in a 1992 Toyota 4x4 for over 11 years with no problems. My Focus is getting 31.6 mpg and it has just over 2000 miles so isn't broken in and from what some post, they get worse mileage with gasoline.
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Old 07-24-2012, 10:21 PM   #16
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Who said we were fully replacing oil? I just said it's renewable. And just like many other plants I'm sure you can use artificial means of growing corn indoors with artificial sunlight and so on and so forth, especially if the only use it's going to have is to provide fuel.

Either way, the dependence on oil needs to stop, but of course the oil industry is too greedy for that to happen, considering GM tried in the 90s with a perfectly viable electric car, of which hundreds or thousands now sit derelict in a lot somewhere because of the greed of the oil industry. Sad that over 10 years later we're finally seeing electric cars and other means of alternative fuels really taking off.
I agree that we have to reduce our dependence on oil, but the better way is reduce the number of oil power plants, a large amount of oil is consumed that way.

I also never said that you said that replacing it fully was the answer, but renewable doesnt help if there isnt enough.

using the math from here: http://auto.howstuffworks.com/fuel-e...uestion707.htm

26.1 pounds of corn produces 1 gallon of ethanol. so a normal 12,000 mile a year car would require 3 acres of corn at 20mpg on ethanol

there are about 150 million cars in the US, so 450 million acres would be needed for corn production, there are currently 375 million acres used for crops now, so if we grew nothing but corn we would still not have enough for all of the cars, not even counting trucks.
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Old 07-24-2012, 10:43 PM   #17
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"26.1 pounds of corn produces 1 gallon of ethanol."
Well that is WRONG. One bushel (56 lbs.) produces 2.8 gallons. The plants I'm an investor in are continuously upgrading to make things even more efficient. Water usage is going down also. My favorite plant is next to a landfill and is using methane for a portion of it's energy needs. I'm farming next to a 1000 head cattle confinement so will get manure that will replace commercial fertilizer. 30% of what the cattle eat is distillers grain from the the ethanol plant. So many of you city people don't have a clue about what really goes on out on the farm---pretty sad.
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Old 07-24-2012, 11:05 PM   #18
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"26.1 pounds of corn produces 1 gallon of ethanol."
Well that is WRONG. One bushel (56 lbs.) produces 2.8 gallons.
56/2.8=20 so a 25% improvement, still nowhere near the efficiency it needs to be for every car to run E85 full time, maybe if you could get that to 5 or 10 times as efficient it would be practical.

If it can't be more efficient or nearly as efficient it is not much value. For me E85 costs $3.15, E10 is 3.25 and E0 is 3.33, The net price of E85 is much higher than normal gas
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Old 07-25-2012, 05:20 AM   #19
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what ever happened to the proven idea of water electrolysis to hybrid fuel or even replace other fuel completely? 90+ mpg hybrids have had successful tests from multiple companies. earth's most common resource and all labeled taboo to make. if you happen to get caught with a car with this you get fined hevily due to not paying road tax. the tech is there. why hold it back now.
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Old 07-25-2012, 05:34 AM   #20
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E85 is supposedly pretty awesome in FI cars running high boost...
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