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Old 07-23-2012, 07:27 PM   #1351
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rsilvers View Post
Has anyone dyno tested their car both ways?
Unfortunately not. Although, I really wish someone would just TOFTT and prove this one way or the other.
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Old 07-23-2012, 07:32 PM   #1352
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People need to understand what it costs to do dyno runs. $75 for three runs, on average.

You guys are asking someone to spend $150 to give you numbers when all you have to do is run a few tanks in your own car, for a difference of approximately $10 over 3 tanks. There is a reason that that thread died off.
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Old 07-23-2012, 07:49 PM   #1353
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People need to understand what it costs to do dyno runs. $75 for three runs, on average.

You guys are asking someone to spend $150 to give you numbers when all you have to do is run a few tanks in your own car, for a difference of approximately $10 over 3 tanks. There is a reason that that thread died off.
How does running it in my own car prove a difference without a dyno test? How would I measure the difference? iPhone app G-meter maybe?

Is adding octane boost the same as buying 93 octane? Then at least you could test on the same day with the same weight fuel.
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Old 07-23-2012, 08:33 PM   #1354
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How does running it in my own car prove a difference without a dyno test? How would I measure the difference? iPhone app G-meter maybe?

Is adding octane boost the same as buying 93 octane? Then at least you could test on the same day with the same weight fuel.
I'm not talking about hp, that you will only notice in SOP. You will notice the difference in fuel economy and acceleration. Yes, there are apps that you can use for a ballpark. No, octane booster is not the same thing. That, and it takes a bit for the LTFT to recalibrate with the new fuel. The only way you would get relatively accurate numbers would be to be near empty on 93 when you pulled onto the dyno and have 10 gallons of 87 ready to go in it. The timing will retard to avoid knock faster than it will advance. I would venture a guess that it over-compensates and then adds slightly.

I get really cheap dyno work, but that doesn't change the fact that it's inconvenient, takes up a few hours of my time, and I would have to deal with a crappy running car for the next few weeks. If you aren't accepting the tests that Top Gear did on a dyno (not a Focus, I understand), then I would recommend calling a nearby shop and getting an opinion/cost for having it done. Then you could be the one to settle it.

Everybody always wants somebody else to do the dyno testing. Try being the somebody else
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Old 07-23-2012, 08:44 PM   #1355
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I did not realize the Focus was 12:1. I now accept that it probably will benefit from 93 octane fuel, especially considering that the owner's manual says that it will.

So now I just want to know how much it benefits, so I can see if it is worth using.

If 93 fuel costs 15% more, and I gain less than 15% increase in MPG, then it is not worth it for fuel economy.

Now if it gains HP, then that is another matter, as I can justify it by acceleration gains rather than on economy gains.

Top gear tested what - a Mustang? How much HP gain and what was the HP? We can then scale it to the Focus HP and come up with a guesstimate.
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Old 07-23-2012, 09:42 PM   #1356
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I did not realize the Focus was 12:1. I now accept that it probably will benefit from 93 octane fuel, especially considering that the owner's manual says that it will.

So now I just want to know how much it benefits, so I can see if it is worth using.

If 93 fuel costs 15% more, and I gain less than 15% increase in MPG, then it is not worth it for fuel economy.

Now if it gains HP, then that is another matter, as I can justify it by acceleration gains rather than on economy gains.

Top gear tested what - a Mustang? How much HP gain and what was the HP? We can then scale it to the Focus HP and come up with a guesstimate.

Ford quotes about 400hp for one of there Mustang models on 87 octane and over 420hp on higher octane, 93 I think. I would not be surprised if 93 octane gas resulted in about 10hp more in the 2012 FF than 87 octane. But, adding ethanol will also increase the hp because it has additional oxygen that acts somewhat like Nitrous Oxide to increase power -- thought that increase in hp comes at the price of lower mpg.

The ideal way to test mpg would be to drive at Daytona Speedway on a calm day then switch back and forth, several times, from one octane to another (87 then 93 then 87 then 93). Even better if you could use a graduated cylinder to hold a precisely known quantity of gas then drive it until it goes from the top mark to the bottom mark.


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Old 07-23-2012, 09:45 PM   #1357
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That scales to 7.6 HP on a Focus.

EPA did their MPG rating on regular 87.

Also check out how much the MPG drops on E85:

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Power...FV&srchtyp=ymm
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Old 07-23-2012, 09:56 PM   #1358
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What is the difference between the AM6 and AM-S6? Select Shift?

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find....31182&id=31183

How come some get 40, some 38, and some 37?
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Old 07-23-2012, 10:00 PM   #1359
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What is the difference between the AM6 and AM-S6? Transmission or sedan va hatchback?

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find....31182&id=31183

How come some get 40, some 38, and some 37? I know mine is rated at 38 and is a sedan, and I have the window sticker from two hatchbacks, and they are 37.
Besides the fact that they re-tested a few configurations after Job 2 so that the select shift automated manual gets the same MPG rating as the standard automated powershift dct.

AM6= Standard powershift without select shift, AM-S6 is the manual mode on the DCT.

Only the SFE model is rated at 40 mpg highway, all the standard models with the DCT are 37-38 hwy on E10 regardless of being a sedan or hatch.

Job 1 build cars with the original window sticker and select shift were rated at 1 mpg worse on the highway than the Job 2 cars.
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Old 07-23-2012, 10:09 PM   #1360
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Mine is a 6/18/12 date with select-shift, and it says 38 on the sticker.

It is interesting that some people prefer the manual when a DCT is available for $1000 more ($4080 option on a Porsche 911) and it not only shifts faster, but is more efficient. And I can say that as I learned on manual and always sought them out.
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