My Oil Change Interval Debate Rant

[TiStick]

Originally Posted by dan50

Not saying it isn't a fine lubricant, but Amsoil's top-of-the-line "Signature Series" (the one with low Noack and such) is not ASE "SN" certified. Amsoil points out reasons this is so but does have a proecudure for dealing with cases where warranty coverage is denied because of the lack of certification. So I guess it happens.

While it sure isn't likely to be a problem, I guess I would prefer to keep my life simpler and avoid it, at least during the warranty period.

Isn't that due to the ZDDP exceeding the ASE's current specs, so they won't "certify"? I had it explained to me once, but never saw it in print.

UB?

[dyn085]

Originally Posted by TitaniumStick

Isn't that due to the ZDDP exceeding the ASE's current specs, so they won't "certify"? I had it explained to me once, but never saw it in print.

UB?

This. This is an area that I have zero expertise and minimal knowledge.

[dan50]

Originally Posted by TitaniumStick

Isn't that due to the ZDDP exceeding the ASE's current specs, so they won't "certify"? I had it explained to me once, but never saw it in print.

UB?

Amsoil explains it as resulting from 1) too much phosphorus (in the form of ZDDP?) and 2) costs to certify each grade. Doesn't mean it isn't a good product, but the certification isn't there.

[UnleashedBeast]

You'd win the lottery twice before having an lubrication related failure using Signature Series. If the API wasn't biased on petroleum base stocks, not allowing base stock swapping procedures for true synthetics, all Signature Series lubricants would be API certified. They all surpass the "minimum" requirements that so many certified lubricants barely meet.

The new Signature Series formulations have API SN acceptable levels of ZDDP. Moly and Boron were boosted in the additive package to compensate. I've proven in the GT500 supercharged engine that elevated levels of ZDDP alone do NOT decrease engine wear. API SN levels of ZDDP were more than sufficient when other additives were present in the formulation.

[cbdallas]

[QUOTE=UnleashedBeast;4252480]Preferred Customer



If you would do as Amsoil intended everyone to do, use Signature Series only changing your oil once a year....it would be cheaper than buying off the shelf.



Sorry...while I agree that Amsoil is a better oil overall than Mobil1 simply due to the fact that it's not a Group III oil mascarading as a true synthetic, it isn't cheaper to buy than Mobil1, even with if I change out the Mobil 1 twice as often. Add the below math to the fact that I have to either drive all the way to Fort Worth to escape shipping charges, or drive to Allen to meet my distributor, the math gets even further out of whack.

If you're getting a better deal than this on Amsoil, please hook a brotha up.

"Preferred Customers purchase AMSOIL products at wholesale cost, which is approximately 25 percent less than suggested retail."

5W-20 Signature Series
Suggested retail $10.05
- 25%
= $7.54
X 5 qts
= $37.70
+ $20.00 per year Preferred Customer Fee
= $57.70

Mobil1 @ Walmart
$26.00 / 5 qt jug
X two changes per year
= $52.00
+ $4.29 sales tax
= $56.29

[UnleashedBeast]

The better deal is.....

better wear (increase engine life), better efficiency (increase mpg), lower NOACK (lower deposits), less waste oil (be more green), and the convenience of one annual oil change from Amsoil Signature Series.

If you are buying for two or more cars, then the comparison is no competition. Amsoil wins hands down.

[TboneZX3]

Originally Posted by cbdallas

Sorry...while I agree that Amsoil is a better oil overall than Mobil1 simply due to the fact that it's not a Group III oil mascarading as a true synthetic, it isn't cheaper to buy than Mobil1, even with if I change out the Mobil 1 twice as often.

I agree. Another thing to consider is the price of filters in this comparison. Amsoil filters are more than twice as expensive as Motorcraft filters, even if you buy the cheaper EA15K51 filter. Assuming that you would use the Amsoil filter if only changing once a year with Amsoil, and the Motorcraft or similar filter if changing twice, your price gap would be greater.

Originally Posted by UnleashedBeast

The better deal is.....

In your earlier post, you said "cheaper". Now it's "better deal"?

[cbdallas]

This is the subject where I often differ with most people on automotive forums. This is definitely not to say or assume that Amsoil filters (or any other brand) are in any way inferior, but in keeping with a manufacturer's warranty, an aftermarket filter that doesn't provide adequate flow can cause any number of problems including valvetrain noise / damage, troubles with VVT funtion, and so on. When these issues arise and an aftermarket filter is involved, the manufacturer is not obligated to warranty a repair.

Kia experienced this with 2.0 Kia Fortes, and finally issued a bulletin to their dealerships notifying them that valvetrain noise is likely caused by the customer using aftermarket filters, and replacing it with a Kia filter will rectify the problem. They went on to say that continued use of these filters may cause valvetrain damage and it would not be warrantied.

Even if I do go with Amsoil, it'll still be filtered by Motorcraft. Just wanted to give everyone a heads up about the sticky parts of their powertrain warranties. Thanks to the Magnuson-Moss Act, you're perfectly within your rights to change your own oil, or have it changed wherever you like, but the oil & filter you choose can indeed affect your warranty.

[UnleashedBeast]

Originally Posted by TboneZX3

I agree. Another thing to consider is the price of filters in this comparison. Amsoil filters are more than twice as expensive as Motorcraft filters, even if you buy the cheaper EA15K51 filter. Assuming that you would use the Amsoil filter if only changing once a year with Amsoil, and the Motorcraft or similar filter if changing twice, your price gap would be greater.



In your earlier post, you said "cheaper". Now it's "better deal"?

The motocraft filter will not flow the same volume as the Amsoil nanofiber media considering equal pressure drop (resistance).

Translation, the Amsoil filter will have a greater level of flow at a certain pressure drop compared to the Motorcraft.

Cheaper over the year, better overall.

Originally Posted by cbdallas

This is the subject where I often differ with most people on automotive forums. This is definitely not to say or assume that Amsoil filters (or any other brand) are in any way inferior, but in keeping with a manufacturer's warranty, an aftermarket filter that doesn't provide adequate flow can cause any number of problems including valvetrain noise / damage, troubles with VVT funtion, and so on. When these issues arise and an aftermarket filter is involved, the manufacturer is not obligated to warranty a repair.

Kia experienced this with 2.0 Kia Fortes, and finally issued a bulletin to their dealerships notifying them that valvetrain noise is likely caused by the customer using aftermarket filters, and replacing it with a Kia filter will rectify the problem. They went on to say that continued use of these filters may cause valvetrain damage and it would not be warrantied.

Even if I do go with Amsoil, it'll still be filtered by Motorcraft. Just wanted to give everyone a heads up about the sticky parts of their powertrain warranties. Thanks to the Magnuson-Moss Act, you're perfectly within your rights to change your own oil, or have it changed wherever you like, but the oil & filter you choose can indeed affect your warranty.

What about Fram oil filters? They have the worst reputation for quality in the industry. I've never seen an engine warranty voided due to using one of those.

[superspec]

in for the gang bang...errr oil debate!