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Old 06-30-2012, 09:22 AM   #111
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Did you just use "WalMart" and "reputable" in the same sentence?

I think my eyes are bleeding
Hilarious. I often see specialty products released and in many cases do have superior performance to the current off-the-shelf competition and the decision is made NOT distribute through major sources so that all the profits can be maintained by the creator. Sounds reasonable...except:

What I do have a problem with is that it is not put out in to the market where competitive forces drive the price to something reasonable. Like, not 50-200% higher than similar products. While I certainly don't know their production cost, I suspect they are not double or triple. I could be wrong but the exclusive MLM marketing channel just has a very bad smell to it for me. So, I'm less likely to give them the benefit of the doubt. MonaVie is another example that comes to mind. $40 for a bottle of juice that you can get at Costco for $10.

On the original subject. Do the companies that do analysis give figures on the amount of contamination? I find it unlikely that there would be much viscosity breakdown in 3000 or even 5000 miles but I often wonder how much contamination (small abrasives) are in there. I get concerned when the color goes dark but that is not very scientific.
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Old 06-30-2012, 09:30 AM   #112
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Did you just use "WalMart" and "reputable" in the same sentence?

I think my eyes are bleeding
As bad as my statement looks on screen, it's true. So many people have said, if it was sold at Wal Mart or auto parts stores, I'd take it more seriously. They seriously discredit Amsoil because it's sold through a MLM network, not retail in stores. There are retail accounts setup around the US and Canada, but you will rarely find it at big outlets.

Funny thing is, I can name so many snake oil engine products that are sold in retail stores.

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What I do have a problem with is that it is not put out in to the market where competitive forces drive the price to something reasonable. Like, not 50-200% higher than similar products. While I certainly don't know their production cost, I suspect they are not double or triple. I could be wrong but the exclusive MLM marketing channel just has a very bad smell to it for me. So, I'm less likely to give them the benefit of the doubt. MonaVie is another example that comes to mind. $40 for a bottle of juice that you can get at Costco for $10.
In Amsoil's case, becoming a preferred customer gets you pricing that beats Wal Mart.

Example, Pennzoil Ultra is 100% hydrocracked petroleum. Sells for over $7.00 a quart.

OE is also 100% hydrocracked petroleum. PC's can buy it for $4.70 a quart.

You pay what it's actually worth. It's the big oil companies that are charging more for an inferior base stock.

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On the original subject. Do the companies that do analysis give figures on the amount of contamination? I find it unlikely that there would be much viscosity breakdown in 3000 or even 5000 miles but I often wonder how much contamination (small abrasives) are in there. I get concerned when the color goes dark but that is not very scientific.
Yes, Amsoil's OAI (Polaris labs) can do an in depth ppm particle count to see what's in the oil.
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Old 06-30-2012, 09:35 AM   #113
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I think Amsoil is a great product but I don't think it's so much better that I would give up the availability and convenience of just using M1 or another synthetic that I can get anywhere. I do buy my M1 at Wally-world since the price is hard to beat for the 5qt jug but sometimes costco sells a case for a real good price.
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Old 06-30-2012, 09:36 AM   #114
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We are in a Walmart generation; if it isn't sold at Walmart, people think they are over-paying.
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Old 06-30-2012, 09:42 AM   #115
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I think Amsoil is a great product but I don't think it's so much better that I would give up the availability and convenience of just using M1 or another synthetic that I can get anywhere. I do buy my M1 at Wally-world since the price is hard to beat for the 5qt jug but sometimes costco sells a case for a real good price.
When you buy the 5.1 container, make sure it's 5W-20 Extended Performance. For only 5 dollars more, you are getting a superior product in comparison to regular Mobil 1.
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Old 06-30-2012, 10:17 AM   #116
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How much better? My 4Runner only sees about 4-5000 miles a year so it's changed about every 11 months so I'm not sure I'd see the benefits.
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Old 06-30-2012, 10:18 AM   #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UnleashedBeast View Post

Yes, Amsoil's OAI (Polaris labs) can do an in depth ppm particle count to see what's in the oil.
Thanks for the info and other info you have posted here. I will probably have that done a coupe times after 5 and 7000 mile runs since as I said, I am most concerned about contaminants. I don't run the car hard enough, often enough to break down the oil.

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In Amsoil's case, becoming a preferred customer gets you pricing that beats Wal Mart.

Example, Pennzoil Ultra is 100% hydrocracked petroleum. Sells for over $7.00 a quart.

OE is also 100% hydrocracked petroleum. PC's can buy it for $4.70 a quart.

You pay what it's actually worth. It's the big oil companies that are charging more for an inferior base stock.
Ok, here is where you are going Sneaky-Pete on me. If you are going to compare prices you have to do it realistically. You didn't include the cost of the preferred customer member ship in your pricing. Also, most everyone buys the 5 gallon jug at Wally World:

M1 for $26.48 = $5.30 /qt (no shipping and only .53 gas since WM is 2 miles from me)

M1 EP $28.97 = $5.79 /qt

Amsoil OE is $6.70 /qt at after adding the $10 membership (plus there is shipping)

Amsoil Signature - 5 qt =$50 +$10 membership -$10 discount = $10 /qt (not including shipping)

I 'am' convinced that the Amsoil is better but I'm only going to pay 'so much' more for it.
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Old 06-30-2012, 10:19 AM   #118
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If you are buying for only one car, you have to buy Signature Series and perform once a year oil changes to make it worth it. That's the only way to save money with a single vehicle. 15,000 miles or one year, whichever occur first.

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How much better? My 4Runner only sees about 4-5000 miles a year so it's changed about every 11 months so I'm not sure I'd see the benefits.
If Mobil 1 hasn't diluted their formulation with VISOM hydrocracked petroleum, you should see an efficiency gain, engine temp reduction, and oil pressure improvements.
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Old 06-30-2012, 10:21 AM   #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UnleashedBeast View Post
Funny thing is, I can name so many engine products that are snake oil and are sold in retail stores.
Quote:
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We are in a Walmart generation; if it isn't sold at Walmart, people think they are over-paying.
Both QFT! I'm all for saving money, but WalMart availability is not a seal of approval in my book. Maybe the sheeple out there think that way, but not me.

Here is why I no longer use M1. I used to have a 2005 Subaru Legacy GT wagon 5speed that I bought new. 250hp/253tq at the wheels on a Mustang dyno(baseline on same dyno was 190ish on hp/tq). After bumping the power up like that, and knowing the Subaru propensity for eating turbo's due to clogging banjo bolt oil screens, I decided to try synthetics. I filled with M1. 3000 miles later, down a quart. Huh? That's funny, she never used oil before Topped her off, then changed at 5K. Same thing next time. WTF? Compression and leakdown, good. Topped off and changed to Redline at next fill. No losses whatsoever between OCI's. Tried Amsoil, same results as the Redline, but smoother running(on my supremely calibrated butt dyno).

So, somehow I lost M1 when I never lost a drop of the dino or the two better grade synthetics.

I sold the LGT and bought a 2002 Z06. It came with M1 from the factory. Ok, I'll keep it in there, it's what GM gave it. 3000 miles, down a quart. F this, back to Amsoil for the rest of the time I owned the car. No oil usage after changing away from the M1. Right after I bought the Z06, but before I switched out of the M1, I met a Mobil rep at Mid-Ohio in the Corvette Corral for the ALMS race. I related my M1 Subaru experience to him, and he took my info and said he would have engineering get back to me. Still waiting, M1 guy! Amsoil I can call and talk to Tech if I really wanted to. I also can talk to many Corvette club racers who have thousands of track miles on Amsoil over on CF, and now of course, UB

Sold the Z06 the day before my Focus was delivered. I don't think I'll be experimenting with M1 again.
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Old 06-30-2012, 10:26 AM   #120
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I remember the issue with the screen in Scoobies clogging up and starving the turbo. The OEM rolled back to a 3,750 OCI to "solve" the issue. Fail Subbie!

I recall a high end performance Evolution shop that had failures with their turbos using regular Mobil 1 due to low levels of ZDDP. I'm trying to find their article about it, but still looking.

Edit: found it

FP Turbo failures

Summary, Mobil 1 may be fine for your grocery getter, but it fails under heavy demand.
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