My Oil Change Interval Debate Rant

[UnleashedBeast]

Originally Posted by 2012TI

http://youtu.be/xQjgtSh8Yzg

Fortunately, we use science and observation to determine what a lubricant can and can't do, not personal beliefs. Not all engine lubricants are created equal. The example below should only be attempted with a TRUE synthetic lubricant, not hydrocracked petroleum.

In the UOA posted below, Amsoil 0W-30 Signature Series was used for over 12,000 miles in a 2003 Chevy Silverado V8 truck. Take note that wear metals are very low for the miles and TBN is still very healthy (1.0 or lower is considered "must change now"). Viscosity held and didn't shear at all.

This truck is used in town with few highway miles. Normal commute to work is 20 minutes one way through morning traffic.



The lubricant in this engine would have been wasted with a 3,000-5,000 oil change intervals.

[Focus YBTC]

Originally Posted by TitaniumStick

Matt, I agree with everything you said.

Now, having said that, I would like to share a little info. I don't subscribe to this policy, but it is in place (at least it was in 2003-2004).

Enterprise Rent-A-Car(ERAC) bought 6% of GM's yearly domestic output in the early 2000's, and a good sized chunk of Ford and Chrysler products as well. We're talking a corporate fleet of 600,000+ vehicles. Enterprise did not keep any vehicle outside of it's manufacturers warranty period, except for a few specialized cases. To keep the warranties valid, the cars had to go in for oil changes/service as recommended by the manufacturer. A 3000 mile OCI just wouldn't cut it. Each manufacturer specified to ERAC what the maximum OCI could be, and ERAC programmed that into their computer system for each make/model. Most US cars were in the 7Kmile range, I think the Cadillac's were 5K, and some of the imports had funky OCI's. I can't recall seeing a vehicle under 5K.

I know that was a business decision on ERAC's part, they basically cut the service costs in half. It is also one reason I would never buy a previous rental car. But, it does show what the OEM's allow to maintain a valid warranty.

The company that employs me only authorizes oil changes at a minimum of 5000 miles or 6 months and we don't get rid of the vehicles when the warranty is expired. In this fleet there are thousands of hard used vehicles that have well over 200,000 miles on them and are ten plus years old that don't have any engine issues. In fact in my experience engine problems are exceedingly rare today compared to the past when 3000 mile oil changes were the norm. That is likely due to better engine design and manufacturing and better oil though. I don't think anyone can make a rational case for a 3000 mile OCI today unless that vehicle is used in extremely heavy duty service or that particular engine has a history of oil sludge problems ( late 90s Toyota Camry) due to design flaws. If 3000 mile changes help someone sleep better at night then go for it but the car probably doesn't need it. The Focus has an oil life monitor to evaluate the oil quality also.

Lots of good oil info at BITOG: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/motor-oil-101/

[Chris_HT]

Changing oil after working on car with valve cover off is good idea.... other than that changing synthetic every 5,000 is my idea of good maintenance and keeping on the very, very, very safe side when it comes to oil changes.

And for the peace of mind, regarding engine protection, I ran it only on Shell V-power, which I believe has some real benefit compared to dumping synthetic oil at 3k

[VectorZ]

I always go 6 months or 6k miles on full synthetic.

[Chris_HT]

I'm currently running on Mobil 1 'full synthetic' 5w-30, can those of you who has some knowledge tell me which oil would be better than that.

I admit I do not fully understand the presented table of oil comparison.

[feta_mgp]

Just gonna throw this out there as far as "new modern engines with higher efficiency" is concerned...

My 2008 Mazdaspeed 3 had it's oil changed every 3,000 miles. Out of the 6 qts. it took... I'd say on average between 4-5 came out, usually closer to 4... Had I waited until 5,000 miles, or even worse, 7-10,000 miles... I probably would have seized the engine. That IS a turbo engine and they DID have an issue with the stock turbo burning oil, which for anyone who didn't remove one of the two stock cats (or both, in my case for a while) wouldn't have noticed because the two cats were able to burn off the oil before you saw it coming out of the tailpipe. Regardless, that's a pretty "efficient" engine right there!

zx3matt you might have some similar experience with that.

Bottom line for me, I'll stick to the minimum recommended OCI's. For my Focus, it'll be 5k. Better safe than sorry. When you spend almost $25k on a car you expect to get you from A to B efficiently for years to come, paying $60 a year for two changes as opposed to $30 for one is worth it, if anything for the peace of mind for me. Not to mention as said earlier, closer intervals = closer inspections, and you never know when that one extra inspection will make the difference.

[RedComet]

Originally Posted by Chris_HT

I'm currently running on Mobil 1 'full synthetic' 5w-30, can those of you who has some knowledge tell me which oil would be better than that.

I admit I do not fully understand the presented table of oil comparison.

?

Originally Posted by feta_mgp

Just gonna throw this out there as far as "new modern engines with higher efficiency" is concerned...

My 2008 Mazdaspeed 3 had it's oil changed every 3,000 miles. Out of the 6 qts. it took... I'd say on average between 4-5 came out, usually closer to 4... Had I waited until 5,000 miles, or even worse, 7-10,000 miles... I probably would have seized the engine. That IS a turbo engine and they DID have an issue with the stock turbo burning oil, which for anyone who didn't remove one of the two stock cats (or both, in my case for a while) wouldn't have noticed because the two cats were able to burn off the oil before you saw it coming out of the tailpipe. Regardless, that's a pretty "efficient" engine right there!
.

Better solution would be to top off, as recommended my most manufacturers and to have an oil catch-can. The latter especially for turbo cars.

[Chris_HT]

Originally Posted by RedComet

?

...?

[RedComet]

Manual and oil cap clearly states SAE 5W-20.

[UnleashedBeast]

Glad I joined the forums here when I did. There seems to be a lot of misinformation and misunderstanding about the current technologies implemented in lubrication formulations.

Mark my words, in the following year there will be many informative posts by me with solid evidence of what you can and can't do with engine lubricants in the new direct injected 2.0 Focus engine. Expect detailed threads from install articles and lab reports to back up claims and findings.

The first mod to my 2012 Focus Ti will be a bypass filtration system to make this engine last more than 300,000 miles. Used Oil Reports will show results that are better than anything you have ever seen before. I will also show real world benefits of "true" synthetic lubricants versus current off the shelf offerings from Mobil 1 (VISOM hydrocracked petroleum), Castrol, and Pennzoil.

Expect a UOA comparison thread very soon here at Focus Fanatics.