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Old 06-06-2012, 08:22 AM   #51
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I just Googled stock dyno's for the '08-'11 Civic SI w/K20... they only make about 172whp & 122lb-ft...184/129 w/IHE.

Civic SI dyno
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Old 06-06-2012, 08:37 AM   #52
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12hp and almost 8lb ft in the Civic for only $1700. Impressive.

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Old 06-06-2012, 09:38 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FocusBoy58 View Post
Well in that case its not for you... Ford knows better then to try and screw me on warranty work..


BUT....


On the way home doing 75 I thought to myself.. I have a 201 crank Horsepower car and Im getting 39.3 mpg
Where did you calculate 201 crank horsepower? What was your stock dyno number? Most I've seen dyno around 148whp stock. so 7.5% drivetrain loss. That would put you at 190 crank horsepower.
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Old 06-06-2012, 09:42 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by kylesvt720 View Post
Where did you calculate 201 crank horsepower? What was your stock dyno number? Most I've seen dyno around 148whp stock. so 7.5% drivetrain loss. That would put you at 190 crank horsepower.
You've got this backwards. You don't take Ford's stated engine output and divide by your whp. All that shows you is the difference between Ford's stated number and what you're seeing to the wheels.

There is no way in flying pig shit heaven this car is only experiencing 7.5% parasitic loss through the drivetrain. If these cars are truly dynoing in the mid 140's stock, all that shows is Ford is underrating them from the factory.
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Old 06-06-2012, 09:46 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amoosenamedhank View Post
You've got this backwards. You don't take Ford's stated engine output and divide by your whp. All that shows you is the difference between Ford's stated number and what you're seeing to the wheels.

There is no way in flying pig shit heaven this car is only experiencing 7.5% parasitic loss through the drivetrain. If these cars are truly dynoing in the mid 140's stock, all that shows is Ford is underrating them from the factory.
How can you say I have it backwards? I haven't shown math. Show me math that states it is 200hp crank?

160 crank horsepower.
148whp = 7.5% parasitic loss.

175whp a the same parasitic loss of 7.5% means the car is making 190 crank horsepower.

Unless you pulled the motor and dynoed the stock crank horsepower, those are the only numbers we have to go on. Yes we all know that the stock motor is probably underrated, but we have no way of proving it, or how much. These are the facts. It should also be noted that GTIs with DSG have far less parastic loss than a traditional automatic, hence the better fuel economy, (and better than manual GTIs). Using that logic a DCT should have less parasitic loss than a manual.
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Old 06-06-2012, 09:54 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kylesvt720 View Post
How can you say I have it backwards? I haven't shown math. Show me math that states it is 200hp crank?

160 crank horsepower.
148whp = 7.5% parasitic loss.

175whp a the same parasitic loss of 7.5% means the car is making 190 crank horsepower.

Unless you pulled the motor and dynoed the stock crank horsepower, those are the only numbers we have to go on. Yes we all know that the stock motor is probably underrated, but we have no way of proving it, or how much. These are the facts.
Yeah... I understand how you got your number, but you can't just make up a percentage because we don't know what the true engine hp is.

You find me one case of a car only exhibiting 7.5% parasitic loss through the drivetrain and I'll believe your crazy fairy tale.
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Old 06-06-2012, 09:54 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amoosenamedhank View Post
There is no way in flying pig shit heaven this car is only experiencing 7.5% parasitic loss through the drivetrain.
Are you sure about that? There are fewer belt-driven accessories on the 2012 than previous focuses, the DCT ensures minimal drivetrain loss over a traditional auto (And manual for that matter)... 7.5% might be slightly optimistic but 8-8.5% could be spot on.
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Old 06-06-2012, 09:56 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mac.mogul View Post
Are you sure about that? There are fewer belt-driven accessories on the 2012 than previous focuses, the DCT ensures minimal drivetrain loss over a traditional auto (And manual for that matter)... 7.5% might be slightly optimistic but 8-8.5% could be spot on.
For a manual transmission vehicle, you typically see between 12-15% depending on other variables. I can not imagine for one second that 8-8.5% is spot on.

What fewer belt-driven accessories? Crank, WP, Alternator, AC condenser... so power steering pump is the miracle pulley that reduces your drivetrain loss by 33%?!?!
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Old 06-06-2012, 09:58 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kylesvt720 View Post
Unless you pulled the motor and dynoed the stock crank horsepower, those are the only numbers we have to go on. Yes we all know that the stock motor is probably underrated, but we have no way of proving it, or how much..
Proof or not, I'm willing to believe the engine is underrated by Ford more than I'm willing to believe there's only 7.5% parasitic loss through the drivetrain!

As Hank mentioned, 12-15% is very typical for parasitic loss in a manual, and those are the numbers I've seen previously for the MTX75 transaxle that has been in the Focus since Mk1. The DCT might match the parasitic loss of the MTX75, but there's no reason to believe that it has less parasitic loss than the MTX75. HP numbers for the manual and DCT are very close, with only a slight loss of torque to the DCT compared to the MTX75.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mac.mogul
Are you sure about that? There are fewer belt-driven accessories on the 2012 than previous focuses, the DCT ensures minimal drivetrain loss over a traditional auto (And manual for that matter)... 7.5% might be slightly optimistic but 8-8.5% could be spot on.
Do you believe that belt-driven accessories are responsible for nearly half of the typical 12-15% parasitic loss?
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Old 06-06-2012, 09:59 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amoosenamedhank View Post
For a manual transmission vehicle, you typically see between 12-15% depending on other variables. I can not imagine for one second that 8-8.5% is spot on.
Even if it's 10% drive train loss.

148 whp with 10% drivetrain loss is 164.44 crank hp.

175whp at 10% loss is 194.44 crank hp.

Still not 200 crank horespower is my point. I'm not trying to bash the almost 30whp gain. Just saying it is what it is.
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