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Old 05-21-2012, 03:50 PM   #231
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joeywhat View Post
It should be noted that since our vehicles are direct injection, those detergents won't touch much of what they are designed to clean.
It'll still do good at keeping carbon deposits away from your valves. I'm not preaching, just saying.
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Old 05-21-2012, 03:56 PM   #232
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Originally Posted by AZfocus2012 View Post
Are you saying the fuel injectors are downstream of the valves or in the cylinders?
Yes.
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Old 05-21-2012, 04:02 PM   #233
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Originally Posted by AZfocus2012 View Post
Are you saying the fuel injectors are downstream of the valves or in the cylinders?
Direct Fuel injection uses high pressure fuel injectors directly inserted inside the combustion chamber, instead of the low pressure port fuel injectors which injected fuel into the intake plenum where it had a chance to vaporize and mix with the incoming air before being drawn into the combustion chamber.

With direct injection you can run higher compression ratios for greater efficiency and since you're injecting liquid fuel after drawing the air into the combustion chamber you can get away with 12:1 compression on 87 octane where as in the past it was viewed with carburetors or port fuel injection that anything over 10.5:1 compression demanded higher octane fuels to prevent detonation (ping/knock/ pre-ignition) of the air fuel mixture ahead of the flame front from the spark plug.
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Old 05-21-2012, 04:05 PM   #234
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I've been driving and racing cars for well over 20 years and while a tank of premium is good to burn out deposits I can't see it being worth while to run all the time since octane rating can't add ponies or MPGs unless the car has an optional octane can be used it shouldn't make a difference. 4th gen 4Runners had the option of running 89 or 91 with using 91 does generate beter acceleration with the V8.
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Old 05-21-2012, 04:33 PM   #235
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Originally Posted by gtp2focus View Post
It'll still do good at keeping carbon deposits away from your valves. I'm not preaching, just saying.
Can you post some links to support your claim?

Here is one that refutes it:

http://www.autoobserver.com/2011/06/...-adopters.html

“DI engines are prone to forming oily deposits on the intake valves, unlike in port fuel-injected engines, where a constant spray of fuel into the port allows any deposits to wash away. With DI engines, the fuel gets injected directly into the combustion chamber, so there isn't a chance for the deposits to wash away. Typically, deposits form when soot – which is an end-product of combustion – adheres to the valve stem.”
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Old 05-21-2012, 04:43 PM   #236
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I found a tid-bit about using V-Power on Shell's website, mind you it's most likly biased but regardless It's valuable information nevertheless.

http://www.shell.us/home/content/usa...fuels/v_power/

Go under FAQs and look two headings down. There is a line about how the additives effect DI engines.
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Old 05-21-2012, 05:47 PM   #237
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Interesting read

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kabigon View Post
Can you post some links to support your claim?

Here is one that refutes it:

http://www.autoobserver.com/2011/06/...-adopters.html

“DI engines are prone to forming oily deposits on the intake valves, unlike in port fuel-injected engines, where a constant spray of fuel into the port allows any deposits to wash away. With DI engines, the fuel gets injected directly into the combustion chamber, so there isn't a chance for the deposits to wash away. Typically, deposits form when soot – which is an end-product of combustion – adheres to the valve stem.”
Quote:
At the Detroit Auto Show in January, Ford was confident enough about its popular 3.5 liter EcoBoost direct-injection V6 to have technicians tear down an example engine that had accumulated the equivalent of 160,000 miles through an intentionally abusive regimen of log dragging, high-speed towing and desert racing. When they opened it up before a live audience, they found some light carbon deposits on the valves and pistons, but not enough to affect performance. In fact, the engine showed a loss of just one horsepower afterwards – roughly what Boyadjiev’s RS 4 engine lost every 500 miles.

Stephen Russ, technical leader for combustion for Ford’s 2-liter Duratec DI engine, said that similar to GM, engineers have determined the proper injection-timing calibration to help eliminate the carbon deposits. But Russ also said the technology of injection components – particularly the high-pressure solenoid injectors – has quickly matured, meaning excess valve deposits in most DI engines should become a thing of the past as these improved components are incorporated into production.
http://www.autoobserver.com/2011/06/...-adopters.html
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Old 05-21-2012, 07:19 PM   #238
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I have gone to a school where they talked about fuel quality. 87 octane unleaded is refered to as "pool gas". It starts out a the refinery and gets transported by tanker to a distribution point and mixed into a tank of other 87 "octanish" fuel. It may be transported again, and so on and so on. 87 octane fuel in mostly unregulated for octane. The constant mixing of unregulated octane means that the end result of octane is a real wild card. It could be 60 octane or 100 octane, you dont really know. The higher grades are regulated though since you pay extra for them. If you pay for 89 octane, that is what you get in theory. If you are concerned with performance, mileage or engine longevity get a higher grade of fuel. If you are not concerned, get 87 octane.
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Old 05-21-2012, 08:14 PM   #239
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Quote:
Typically, deposits form when soot – which is an end-product of combustion – adheres to the valve stem.”
That's another good thing about ethanol in the fuel---less soot. It burns oh so clean. Burning 30% or more ethanol keeps the lubricating oil so much cleaner too.
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Old 05-21-2012, 10:57 PM   #240
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eweisbard View Post
I have gone to a school where they talked about fuel quality. 87 octane unleaded is refered to as "pool gas". It starts out a the refinery and gets transported by tanker to a distribution point and mixed into a tank of other 87 "octanish" fuel. It may be transported again, and so on and so on. 87 octane fuel in mostly unregulated for octane. The constant mixing of unregulated octane means that the end result of octane is a real wild card. It could be 60 octane or 100 octane, you dont really know. The higher grades are regulated though since you pay extra for them. If you pay for 89 octane, that is what you get in theory. If you are concerned with performance, mileage or engine longevity get a higher grade of fuel. If you are not concerned, get 87 octane.
My understanding is that:

1) Many gas stations blend premium and regular to get "mid-grade" fuel (i.e. 50/50 mix of 87 and 91 to get 89). Therefore, if '87' wasn't really 87 octane, '89' would not be 89 octane as well.

2) Most states monitor the quality of the fuel. In California, 87 is the minimum octane for fuel sold as 87.
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