Which car manufacturer do you hate most?

[Fattie]

dodge sucks.

[Lscman]

Originally Posted by Graves

Dodge. Minus the Viper I've never been impressed with anything they put out 70's on.

Nothing impressive after 1970? This must be based upon total ignorance (lack of awareness). What about the #1 selling minivan in the world with it's interior volume that rivaled Suburban plus better handling and double the gas mileage? I transport my motorcycle in a Grand Caravan! You can't do that in a Suburban unless you lay your bike down on it's side lol. Every car company in the world copied the Caravan except for Mercedes and BMW, including their revolutionary stow and go seating. Dodge Caravan was so good that Ford threw in the towel and discontinued BOTH of their minivan offerings, leaving Dodge to stand it's ground against the onslaught of Honda and Toyota import copycats. The base Dodge minivan has over 280 HP and they handle like a car! GM hardly pretends to compete in that market.

The Neon & Stratus cab forward design offered interior volume almost equal to Taurus in a much smaller & lighter chassis. It was truly revolutionary and copied throughout the industry. Asian car companies especially adopted the cab forward concept. The Neon's costly SLA suspension is generally only found on a sports car or premium marque. It totally blows away the typical basic strut setup (Focus etc). This is why Neons rule in road track racing and Focus is non-existent. What about the Omni turbo GLHS that ran 13's back when all other econoboxes were running 16's?? They ruled tracks for many years. With a driver who could harness the power, they inhaled the slower GTI and CRX. The Chrysler-Dodge 4 cylinder motors found in their cars from mid-70's were far superior to the GM or Ford offerings. The 16v domestic design Neon motor was far superior to what Ford offered in the Escort. Ford's econobox pinto motor variants were heavier and less efficient and short-lived GM Vega Cosworth had serious design defects. The GM Iron Duke was surely not impressive. It took Mazda to rescue Ford from their 4 cyl powerplant gap.

Chrysler 300 with SRT8 sported the bulletproof Mercedes tranny and put the Ford Mercury Marauder to shame in a straight line. It was big and not a BMW M5 or CTS-V killer wrt handling, but had some nice attributes like good comfort and wicked big brakes.

As for truck power, the 6 cyl Cummins diesel found in Dodge pickups has been the #1 towing KING since it's release. Go to any county fair and see who's pulling the sled to win a #1 trophy. If it's running on diesel, it's either John Deere or Dodge. Ford and GM diesels don't even rate, despite more cylinders, more cost and more fuel consumption. The bolt-on aftermarket kits for Dodge Cummins are cheap and will push a 1 ton dualie into the 11's.

Have you been in a Jeep off-road lately? Obviously not. They can climb walls and pass thru streams 3 ft deep in total comfort. A wide list of engines are offered including thrifty and torquey turbo diesels. The Jeep is still king in the woods and has been since world war II.

The latest crop of Chrysler's slimmed down and tuned performance SUV's are worthy competitors to BMW X series offering world class road acceleration, handling, braking and comfort.

Chrysler has struggled a bit with quality, but the difference between "best to worst" is quite small these days. It's only a 20% differential now between class leaders and the worst. Premium companies like VW, BMW and Mercedes have all struggled to reach average quality in the past 5 yrs, so it is not limited to cheaper or domestic marques.

[azdamay]

Originally Posted by Lscman

...Chrysler has struggled a bit with quality...

You make an impassioned case for the Chrysler Corp., but I've excerpted the bottom line. I want to like Chrysler products, they have in fact innovated any number of things. But every product from that company that I've ever owned, driven, or had in the family has been a let down from a quality standpoint.

Also, it's only very recently that Chrysler finally gave the Caravan a much-needed power boost. For a long time they lagged way behind in both engine and transmission offerings. I know. I drove a 2006 Grand Caravan C/V for 4.5 years. Even with all the seats, sound insulation, and other goodies removed to create a 'cargo' van, it was still a dog with that tired old 3.3 liter V6.

[Lscman]

Originally Posted by azdamay

You make an impassioned case for the Chrysler Corp., but I've excerpted the bottom line. I want to like Chrysler products, they have in fact innovated any number of things. But every product from that company that I've ever owned, driven, or had in the family has been a let down from a quality standpoint.

Also, it's only very recently that Chrysler finally gave the Caravan a much-needed power boost. For a long time they lagged way behind in both engine and transmission offerings. I know. I drove a 2006 Grand Caravan C/V for 4.5 years. Even with all the seats, sound insulation, and other goodies removed to create a 'cargo' van, it was still a dog with that tired old 3.3 liter V6.

Everything has it's pros and cons. Buyers without strong bias will realize that. To your points:

Quality ratings for Chrysler over the last 5 yrs are virtually identical to BMW, Mercedes, Jaguar and VW and far better than Land Rover. This issue has not stopped so-called discriminating buyers from paying $80+K for hardware with similar quality ratings.

You say a base 3.3L 6 cyl motor with wide ratio 4 spd auto was slow? No kidding. That's because you drove a strippo fleet option caravan bought thru low bid that sold for $14K, duh!! That market has been filled with Ford Transit and other asian mini's. This price point is less than what a base USPS fleet Ford Aerostar cost a decade earlier. The base 3.3L was popular and demanded by destitute pedestrian buyers and businesses who pinch pennies. That's why it was sold and it's why you weren't driving a Toyota. An optional, torquey 3.8L motor was released for Dodge Caravan a whopping 11 years ago and it came with a crisply shifting 6 speed automatic. This isn't so recent. An even more powerful 4.0 liter option was released almost 5 yrs ago to compete head-to-head with Toyotas and Hondas costing near $40K. The moral of the story....don't drive a 6 cyl Mustang or 525i and then complain it won't accelerate like a 550i or Mustang GT....duh. Next you're gonna tell us that Camaro's are slow because you drove a 6 cyl.

The Caravan's 3.8 L and 4.0L options are not new by any stretch. To the dismay of Dodge Engineers, the now-discontinued super torquey 4.0L stood toe-to-toe with the latest 280HP engine in more than one magazine drag test. The big news for the new 32v motor is it comes standard without any price increase. Now strippo fleet drivers can burn rubber in vans costing under $20K lol. No other minivan mfr offers such power at a similar price point.

[clnzx4]

Chevrolet. Every one we have owned has just been a pain to work on & the people who work for Chevy in this area aren't helpful one bit.

[RonMaiden]

I have an open mind on all brands (for the most part) and have had awesome driving experiences in several brands but this Focus is my first domestic car I've owned in 20 years and in less than a 100 miles the A/C compressor breaks so not a good start with my first Ford.
I'm partial to Toyota (173k on mu '99 4Runner and has been the most reliable vehicle I've ever owned and it's regularly off roaded) and Subi's (see sig) but I would never have a "hate" feeling toward any brands since that kind of ignorance could have you missing out on something good.

[LouBomb]

Originally Posted by WiscoZx3

Ford, tbh. Pure garbage.

i was waiting for this lol

[DEREKC]

Isn't Chrysler bankrupt? The Grand Caravan....the worst minivan available!!! The ONLY reason people buy it is because it is $10k less than a real/quality minivan (Honda/Toyota).

[azdamay]

Originally Posted by Lscman

You say a base 3.3L 6 cyl motor with wide ratio 4 spd auto was slow? No kidding...

...An optional, torquey 3.8L motor was released for Dodge Caravan a whopping 11 years ago and it came with a crisply shifting 6 speed automatic. This isn't so recent...

...The big news for the new 32v motor is it comes standard without any price increase. Now strippo fleet drivers can burn rubber in vans costing under $20K lol...

Ok, to address your points. Of course the van was slow. I know that. But I'd like to see the breakout of how many Caravans came with the 3.3 vs. optional engines. I'd bet you most of them came with the 3.3 and not a more powerful engine. And those are pulling around more weight with all the seats, sound deadening, and passengers. So... slow, yes? Down on power, yes?

Your point that they have now made a more powerful engine standard across the line is what I was getting at in the previous post. Sure, they had an optional engine with more power previously, but now they finally got with the program and brought the Caravan into the 21st century.

Also, find me a fleet/rental van new on the lot for less than $20,000. I'd like to see that. The van my company bought brand new 6 years ago cost considerably more than that.

[Montag]

I'm kind of impressed that somebody can be knowledgeable about Chrysler and also be a fan. Wonders never cease. I'll admit they have made some bold moves in recent decades, but I always interpreted them as acts of desperation by a failing company. You've got to give them credit, though, they have exerted a huge influence on the automotive industry relative to the size of the company. If it weren't for Chrysler, we wouldn't have minivans, giant big-rig styled pickups(1994 Dodge Ram was the first), or stupid modern retro styling (pt cruiser started it). Chrysler produces and inspires a bunch of ridiculous love-it-or-hate-it vehicles. Personally, I choose hate.