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Old 05-04-2012, 07:54 PM   #111
JSR84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darkangelism View Post
while i am not as much of an expert as the others, under normal driving conditions, it is doubtful you will damage your engine. Running lean means that the engine runs hotter, which could lead to detonation of the fuel, causing you to blow or melt the engine, but you have to be pushing the engine to where it is running hot enough for that to happen, which would be hard driving conditions and not daily driving.

If the cars are running lean from the factory, we are losing HP because less fuel is being delivered and tuning would help this.
Engine manufacturers typically target 14.7:1 A:F (or 1 Lambda) under part throttle and light loads because that's the ratio at which gasoline burns most efficiently. The byproduct of burning fuel at the optimal ratio to air is heat. When at light loads this heat isn't that big of a deal because the engine is capable of removing the heat. When you get into higher loads the amount of heat produced running at 1 Lambda would be far to much for the engine to handle and would start melting stuff. To avoid this, as load increases the A:F ratio decreases to maintain a controllable amount of heat. There are a ton of factors that come into play, but this is the basic theory behind A:F.

Regarding your last point, you have it backwards. Running leaner A:F are more desirable when it comes to power production because the closer you get to 1 Lambda the more efficient the burn. Keep in mind however, running to lean can cause to much heat and start destroying stuff. Finding the right A:F depends on tones of factors, but that's beyond the scope of this post.

I've included a screen shot of my Closed Loop fueling table on my MazdaSpeed for reference.

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Old 05-04-2012, 08:03 PM   #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darkangelism View Post
while i am not as much of an expert as the others, under normal driving conditions, it is doubtful you will damage your engine. Running lean means that the engine runs hotter, which could lead to detonation of the fuel, causing you to blow or melt the engine, but you have to be pushing the engine to where it is running hot enough for that to happen, which would be hard driving conditions and not daily driving.

If the cars are running lean from the factory, we are losing HP because less fuel is being delivered and tuning would help this.
thanks for the reassurance. I am running 93 octane so hope that helps.
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Old 05-04-2012, 08:28 PM   #113
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JSR84 I am guessing that fuel file you posted was piggy-back ?

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Old 05-04-2012, 08:29 PM   #114
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JSR84 I am guessing that fuel file you posted was piggy-back ?

Tom
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Old 05-04-2012, 08:30 PM   #115
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Originally Posted by Ox-y-GenIII View Post
I don't think an intake or exhaust void Fords warranty so I'm not worrying about it. Plus if you have had 10 2012's on your dyno that all ran lean then maybe it just runs lean.

I definitely don't know exactly what you mean but I understand the concept.

What should the afr be at during part throttle, wot, or idle?

100% will void your powertrain warranty if Ford sees you have changed the Intake and Exh , you may want to look into this before showing them or have engine issues

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Old 05-04-2012, 08:36 PM   #116
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It will if it was the cause of the failure, but they would have to prove that, so yeah it should be fine. and tuning will be available eventually and solve the problem.

Normal driving probably wont be a problem, but lean means more heat for the engine.
NO ! If you have an engine failure and you take your Focus to Ford , all they have to say is you modified the intake and Exh and that caused the failure , then YOU have to prove that it didnt ... good luck with that

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Old 05-04-2012, 08:40 PM   #117
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Originally Posted by Kabigon View Post

1) Why would the front O2 not be used during WOT? I have never seen my car go open loop @ WOT....?
Only CL = Closed Loop fuel uses the front o2 for fueling , OL = Open Loop uses the base fuel tables and no o2 for WOT fueling , If you go WOT then you are using your OL fueling , its more what your trying to log with then your not going OL

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2) I am getting a steady 12.4~12.5 (commanded and actual) AFR @ WOT....?
Then your to rich and loosing some power/torque

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Could this be attributed to PCM calibration differences or...?
Who did your tuning

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Old 05-04-2012, 08:52 PM   #118
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Oh well. Tuning voids your warranty even if nothing goes wrong with the car so ill just deal with it until a tune is available. My afr isn't that bad even at wot.

Off to explore more modifications and with exploring you find other issues. I don't think anything is going to happen anyways.
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Old 05-04-2012, 09:02 PM   #119
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Originally Posted by 1turbofocus View Post
NO ! If you have an engine failure and you take your Focus to Ford , all they have to say is you modified the intake and Exh and that caused the failure , then YOU have to prove that it didnt ... good luck with that

Tom
yeah you're right, that is what they will say.



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Installation or usage of any aftermarket product, including tint, will not necessary void the warranty

However, if an aftermarket product fails or causes a Ford part to fail, the repair cost and related damages may not be covered by the warranty.
You probably scared half the people on here into pulling out their mods.
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Old 05-04-2012, 09:02 PM   #120
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Originally Posted by 1turbofocus View Post
Only CL = Closed Loop fuel uses the front o2 for fueling , OL = Open Loop uses the base fuel tables and no o2 for WOT fueling , If you go WOT then you are using your OL fueling , its more what your trying to log with then your not going OL

Then your to rich and loosing some power/torque


Who did your tuning

Tom
While you are partially correct tom and I never disagree with you because your my tuner its actually the opposite Ford must prove by law that the part caused the engine to fail. Just tested this theory last weak when ford said my rear motor mount was bad lol. They said well this car is modified and has no cat that cause the motor to move more under acceleration. I said well ill call you back and had a three way with my good ol ford engineer and they were extra excited the next day about replacing my motor mount. We had a full conversation and the engineer said you can't be scared to do that because you may pay for something that legally we should have warrantied.

Kevin is our friend but still he wouldnt lie.
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