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Old 04-12-2012, 04:08 PM   #21
03#1965
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1turbofocus View Post
Why take the Cam gears loose at all ?

Tom
Ya know, Tom, the more I think about Ford's process on this, the less I understand it. If the car is running good when you remove the old belt, why would they even suggest you loosen the cam gears???? Once the crank is at TDC, the belt is removed and the timing bar is slipped into the cams, everything is as good as it's going to get, right? So at that point you just index the cam gears to each other with a Sharpie and a straight edge, remove the timing bar and tension the new belt on. As long as the cam gear marks stay dead on, it's all good, right? What am I missing?
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Old 04-12-2012, 05:05 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by 03#1965 View Post
Ya know, Tom, the more I think about Ford's process on this, the less I understand it. If the car is running good when you remove the old belt, why would they even suggest you loosen the cam gears???? Once the crank is at TDC, the belt is removed and the timing bar is slipped into the cams, everything is as good as it's going to get, right? So at that point you just index the cam gears to each other with a Sharpie and a straight edge, remove the timing bar and tension the new belt on. As long as the cam gear marks stay dead on, it's all good, right? What am I missing?
Here's my 2 cents. I think Fords process plays it safe and covers the cars that get out of tolerance. When I did the belt I had two mechanic friends with me, one which was the previous owner. We indexed the cam gears with a marker but when the timing bar was slipped on the marks were off... so if we didn't loosen the gears there was a trade off, either the crank would be off TDC or the timing bar wouldn't slip on. I think that was my understanding of it, it's been so long since I did it. Anyway after the belt was done the car ran great and had more power than I had ever known.
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Old 04-13-2012, 11:26 PM   #23
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Here's my 2 cents. I think Fords process plays it safe and covers the cars that get out of tolerance. When I did the belt I had two mechanic friends with me, one which was the previous owner. We indexed the cam gears with a marker but when the timing bar was slipped on the marks were off... so if we didn't loosen the gears there was a trade off, either the crank would be off TDC or the timing bar wouldn't slip on. I think that was my understanding of it, it's been so long since I did it. Anyway after the belt was done the car ran great and had more power than I had ever known.
I guess to clarify my point, you really can't index the cams to each other until AFTER the belt is off and the timing bar is in the cams (#1 @ TDC, crank pin in). But at that point you should be able to do it and--really--if the cam gears are never loosened (and your belt doesn't break) those marks should always be a really good timing reference point. If that's not logical, I'm sure someone else will chime in.
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Old 04-14-2012, 12:19 PM   #24
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ok the best way is off a fj post basically with the cams and crank locked, exhaust gear loose intake gear tight. you turn the intake gear towards the windshield and watch the oil come out of it and then turn it back towards the bumper untill it comes to a solild stop. the problem is when you remove the old belt the leftover oil in the gear forces it to turn towards the windshield when it needs to be turned all the way to the front bumper to not get a code. I know this sounds hacked up but once you get to putting the belt on it would make since the key is DONT loosen the intake gear!
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Old 04-15-2012, 01:38 AM   #25
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I have done couple back home with marker and no any kind of timing tools. It worked great, different engines but still dohc. The thing with the crank tool is that it happend to me on a zx2 it wsn't pointing to real TDC as an idea, don't know why.
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Old 04-15-2012, 02:05 AM   #26
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worked great on mine but i double checked with the crank pulley to be dam sure lol
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Old 04-15-2012, 08:47 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by blackonblacksvt03 View Post
ok the best way is off a fj post basically with the cams and crank locked, exhaust gear loose intake gear tight. you turn the intake gear towards the windshield and watch the oil come out of it and then turn it back towards the bumper untill it comes to a solild stop. the problem is when you remove the old belt the leftover oil in the gear forces it to turn towards the windshield when it needs to be turned all the way to the front bumper to not get a code. I know this sounds hacked up but once you get to putting the belt on it would make since the key is DONT loosen the intake gear!
Where did you find this fjpost? Thanks!
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Old 04-16-2012, 07:55 PM   #28
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Ok, I'm not here to piss anyone off, but I did this recently on my '03 SVTF. I am a hobby mechanic and an electrical engineer by trade. In my opinion the service manual directions are about as good as I've seen. The additional things I would stress in my opinion are:

1. Loosen the intake and exhaust cams with an impact gun before taking the old belt off etc.
2. Replace the exhaust cam pulley bolt with an aftermarket socket head cap one. I think Massive has them. The torx bolt is way too freakin shallow and you can/will strip it trying to get 85 ft/lbs on it.
3. Use a properly sized open end wrench on the flats on the cams to hold them while you are tightening the cam pulley bolts.

You loosen the cam pulley bolts to allow them to float in the exact right position before tightening. This basically gives you perfect timing since the crank and cams are locked into place. Can you "luck out" and get it without doing that? Sometimes. Do you really want to throw a code and have to do it over? If you're like Tom and have done 1000 of them you probably have a "feel" for it, but most have not.

This worked like a charm for me the first time. No codes thrown and it runs great, even better than before.

blackonblacksvt03 - you scare me a lil, and this is why I like to do my own work. Don't you think the service manual was written the way it was for a reason?
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Old 04-16-2012, 08:35 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 03#1965 View Post
I guess to clarify my point, you really can't index the cams to each other until AFTER the belt is off and the timing bar is in the cams (#1 @ TDC, crank pin in). But at that point you should be able to do it and--really--if the cam gears are never loosened (and your belt doesn't break) those marks should always be a really good timing reference point. If that's not logical, I'm sure someone else will chime in.
I had a 1381 code two weeks before the scheduled change, it fixed itself overnight, but something was out of phase in the timing. We were doing the belt job by the book all along, but we made marks on the gears anyway. It came to the point where the marks we made weren't any good and they got ignored, itís a useless step. In a simplistic way you want to have... 1.) the cam bar slide in with no interference. 2.) the crank on the pin. 3.) and the belt to slip on the teeth smoothly. Without loosening the gears I would've only met 2 of the 3 criteria.
---
I agree with everything rgonyer said, worked like a charm and I got "extra" torque out of it.
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Old 04-16-2012, 09:44 PM   #30
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blackonblacksvt03 - you scare me a lil, and this is why I like to do my own work. Don't you think the service manual was written the way it was for a reason?
Fords instructions don't give any mention about how to position the VCT, and that's the whole issue that people are debating here. You can't blame the dude for being misinformed when Ford doesn't even explicitly provide the information. I've got Fords Alldata instructions right in front of me and all it says is to disconnect the VCT electrical harness beforehand. The fact is that you got lucky by loosening the cam gears and letting them "float", that's how everybody else is getting DTCs after this and why they avoid loosening the cam gears in the first place. And get off my g lawn with your hippity hop and smarty phones.
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