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Old 04-05-2012, 12:39 PM   #691
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Originally Posted by Boomertwo View Post
The speed limits were put in place for a reason and if everyone drives the same speed then there would be little reason to pass anyone.
No way, the engineers who determine the speed limits know full well that 20% of folks will be doing 10 over whatever the limit is and they set the limit accordingly. Call it a safety factor. IMHO, everyone should do 7 mph over the limit like me and there would be no road rage.

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I understand we're trying to max our MPG in this thread but doing all these extra steps just makes driving seem more like a chore. Yeah the economy is crap but just drive the car and enjoy it. You may save a little bit doing all these steps but really who wants to go from work into another job aka driving their car in such a complicated manner.
I don't think coasting to stops necessarily saps the fun factor or is particularly complicated. You can still tear it around the corners. And I only said I would experiment with slow accelerations to see if had a significant effect. I'd only keep doing it if it gave me like a 3-4mpg gain, which I don't expect it to.
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Old 04-05-2012, 12:42 PM   #692
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Understood. Backup is always good. What percentage of time, not miles, but time do you guys spend on your commute off highway when you're presumably driving the same speed in both cases? That's going to narrow the gap a lot over the course of a tank.

I think someone on a long trip that fills up, gets right on the highway and depletes the entire tank before getting off again is going to get several mpg better at 70 than 75. In my '08 Escape I would get around 21 mpg highway on trips from Jersey to Michigan but on a trip from Jersey to upstate New York decided to take it real easy and keep speeds between 60-65mph and calculated about 26 mpg over two tanks.
clearly you didn't read my post. But, for your sake I will re-iterate my point.

I have driven long highway trips where I fueled up, got on the highway, set cruise at 70, and fueled up, got on the highway, and set the cruise at 75, mroe than on one occasion, it's a 1-1.5 mpg difference at best.


I'm unwilling to cruise at 60-65 mph when I am already getting 33-35 mpg.

In my superduty I can cruise at 61-62 and get around 20-22 mpg. At 70 I can get about 17-18 and at 75 I get 15.

Wind resistance plays a huge factor at these speeds, obviously my focus is much more aerodynamic than my superduty.
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Old 04-05-2012, 12:45 PM   #693
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. I also bought the car as I liked the experience of driving it. If the car had like no balls like the fiesta (only my opinion) then I wont be happy. I drive not to be bored but to enjoy the experience.
.
You're car has balls? It's fun to drive? Can we trade? Cause my focus has next to zero balls and isn't very fun to drive.
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Old 04-05-2012, 01:11 PM   #694
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clearly you didn't read my post. But, for your sake I will re-iterate my point.

I have driven long highway trips where I fueled up, got on the highway, set cruise at 70, and fueled up, got on the highway, and set the cruise at 75, mroe than on one occasion, it's a 1-1.5 mpg difference at best.
No I didn't catch that. So now it's a 1.5mpg difference? Getting closer to my unfounded opinion of "several."

We still have PM's 14mpg scientifically measured difference from 55 to 70, doubt the difference drops to only 1mpg from 70 to 75. And Hawktoe's admission of a 0.6 mpg difference between two tanks at the same speed. But since I have no more to go on at this point, I'll concede it's possible, if surprising, until more scientific data comes in from someone.
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Old 04-05-2012, 01:18 PM   #695
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No I didn't catch that. So now it's a 1.5mpg difference? Getting closer to my unfounded opinion of "several."

We still have PM's 14mpg scientifically measured difference from 55 to 70, doubt the difference drops to only 1mpg from 70 to 75. And Hawktoe's admission of a 0.6 mpg difference between two tanks at the same speed. But since I have no more to go on at this point, I'll concede it's possible, if surprising, until more scientific data comes in from someone.
well, I didn't write the numbers down, but, if my memory serves me right I got 33.xx on my way at 75, and 34 something on my way back, so it could be anywhere from a .11 mpg difference all the way to a 1.9 mpg difference.

On my daily commute, which is pretty static as far as variables go, I have not noticed a significant difference in driving 70 or 75. I live 2 miles from the freeway, and I work 2 miles from the freeway and I drive 70-75 on the freeway. On tanks I kept it at 70 and tanks i kept it at 75 during the freeway portions I didn't notice much if any difference at all, at least it wasn't memorable.

I'm not arguing with you that going slower equals better mileage, I am well aware. I'm saying at highway speeds I haven't noticed a huge difference like in some other vehicles.

As I said, in my truck the difference is huge, as it is in the Explorer, and was in other previous cars, but in the focus it hasn't been noticeable. On the flip side I did notice going 55 I am over 40 mpg....but that's not going to happen for extended periods of time.

I noticed a bigger drop going from 75-80.....33ish down to 30-31ish.
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Old 04-05-2012, 01:28 PM   #696
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Ha ha, uh, I'm pretty sure Office Krupke would say that rolling through stops is in fact overtly breaking the law. But I get what you're sayin....

Cool thanks for the elaboration. Yeah I'd believe 37 too, 39 seems a bit much, but maybe. I could probably coast a little more than I already am but not without peeving off drivers behind me as much as I get peeved getting held up by someone going 5 under the limit in front of me. I think on my next tank I might try the real slow accelerations and at least see what the computer is calculating for mpg over a couple days. If it looks like a significant improvement I'll take it to the end of the tank and confirm with a calculation.
Hah, yeah you're right about treating Stops as Yields. I just mean, I'm not blowing through them at 50 mph. I can scan these intersections 500 feet before I get there and if I see a car anywhere I'm stopping.

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With a manual transmission, it might still be best to upshift in these situations to the highest gear that will keep you above idle, rather than idling. Regardless of speed, if you are in a gear that keeps RPMs just above idle, very little momentum will be lost through the drivetrain. It would be hard to determine if you would be burning more gas idling or making up from the lost momentum, however.
I'd be curious to know. In my case it's such a small portion of my drive and I think the difference is too small to compute based on fillup mileage alone--too many variables. I'm considering a ScanGauge but haven't pulled the trigger yet.

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Don't take this the wrong way but I find people who drive slower to be more of a hazard on the road than those who drive the speed limit. The same for those who driver over the speed limit. The speed limits were put in place for a reason and if everyone drives the same speed then there would be little reason to pass anyone.

I understand we're trying to max our MPG in this thread but doing all these extra steps just makes driving seem more like a chore. Yeah the economy is crap but just drive the car and enjoy it. You may save a little bit doing all these steps but really who wants to go from work into another job aka driving their car in such a complicated manner.

If you really want to save money on gas you should have bought an all electric car. Devils advocates is your electricity bills will be a lot higher and you can only go short distances.

Yeah I bought my car for fuel savings but it wasn't the only reason. I also bought the car as I liked the experience of driving it. If the car had like no balls like the fiesta (only my opinion) then I wont be happy. I drive not to be bored but to enjoy the experience.

Also coasting/rolling past stop signs is against the law as you must come to a complete stop. An officer can pull you over if they catch you doing this.

If I offended anyone then I apologize ahead of time.
Well, you don't really have to drive under the speed limit to get these kinds of numbers unless you're on the freeway. I don't touch freeway on my commute so I'm not driving below the speed limit (not that I shouldn't be allowed to). I accelerate and decelerate gently, and I increase my following distance; those are the only big things I do differently when I'm hypermiling. It's unfortunate how many people freak out that you're following the next car by 4 seconds instead of 1 second.

I do agree, you do have to be mindful of other traffic when you're doing this stuff and be considerate of others. If somebody is riding your tail, yeah, you probably don't want to take 25 seconds to get to 50mph.

Since I've started driving more conservatively, I've found that my 35-minute commute takes maybe 1 or 2 minutes longer, and instead of riding someone's ass and being pissed off that they're not going faster, I have a mellow commute and actually find I have far less traffic to compete with because it turns out that NOT everyone is doing 10-over. I'm also hitting a lot more green lights instead of fresh reds.

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No way, the engineers who determine the speed limits know full well that 20% of folks will be doing 10 over whatever the limit is and they set the limit accordingly. Call it a safety factor. IMHO, everyone should do 7 mph over the limit like me and there would be no road rage.
There would still be plenty of road rage. Maybe less, though. It's not my fault people behave that way, though. Police, if we're going to use them to enforce traffic laws, need to spend more time nabbing people for road-rage-type activities and less time giving me a hard time because my registration expired last week, but the reality is the calm people are easy money.

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I don't think coasting to stops necessarily saps the fun factor or is particularly complicated. You can still tear it around the corners. And I only said I would experiment with slow accelerations to see if had a significant effect. I'd only keep doing it if it gave me like a 3-4mpg gain, which I don't expect it to.
I kind of look at it more as a game.

I did buy a Focus largely for the gas savings. It's the only reason I don't drive a bigger car. The BEST I can get out of my '04 Taurus on my commute is about 24 mpg in warm weather, summer gas, etc. I drive 15k miles a year so if gas prices stay in the 3.50-4 range, i'm saving $1,000 a year in gas alone if I can maintain 35 in the Focus. That's a third to a half of a car payment, so it's a pretty big deal.

Regarding the "you should have bought an electric car" comment, there's a lot more to that than the MPG story. Electrics cost a load more up front, the used market is entirely questionable when it comes to resale, electricity may be cheaper than gas but it isn't free, and the electric drivetrains are too new and unproven for me to feel comfortable with their relability. Also consider, going from 35 mpg to 45 mpg would have a MUCH smaller financial benefit than 25 mpg to 35 mpg because your percentage gain is smaller, which also lessens the gain from electric or hybrid.
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Old 04-05-2012, 01:28 PM   #697
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well, I didn't write the numbers down, but, if my memory serves me right I got 33.xx on my way at 75, and 34 something on my way back, so it could be anywhere from a .11 mpg difference all the way to a 1.9 mpg difference.

On my daily commute, which is pretty static as far as variables go, I have not noticed a significant difference in driving 70 or 75. I live 2 miles from the freeway, and I work 2 miles from the freeway and I drive 70-75 on the freeway. On tanks I kept it at 70 and tanks i kept it at 75 during the freeway portions I didn't notice much if any difference at all, at least it wasn't memorable.

I'm not arguing with you that going slower equals better mileage, I am well aware. I'm saying at highway speeds I haven't noticed a huge difference like in some other vehicles.

As I said, in my truck the difference is huge, as it is in the Explorer, and was in other previous cars, but in the focus it hasn't been noticeable. On the flip side I did notice going 55 I am over 40 mpg....but that's not going to happen for extended periods of time.

I noticed a bigger drop going from 75-80.....33ish down to 30-31ish.
Thanks for the add'l explanation. Now a 1.9mpg difference I'd be willing to accept at face value. And you should be able to sustain 40mpg + at 55. PM did their 150-ish-mile test around Detroit at a steady 55 and measured 47.5 mpg. Granted that was with the SFE package, so say 44-45 without it.
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Old 04-05-2012, 01:37 PM   #698
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<double post> Sorry, I don't see a way to delete post.
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Old 04-05-2012, 02:41 PM   #699
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I'm not arguing with you that going slower equals better mileage, I am well aware. I'm saying at highway speeds I haven't noticed a huge difference like in some other vehicles.
Ha! Found something somewhat scientific online. Apparently Consumer Reports came up with the following table a couple years ago:



The 4 cyl Camy is probably the closest to the Focus on this list. It saw a 5mpg drop from 65 to 75. Since air resistance will increase exponentially with speed, I'd expect most of that 5 mpg difference to be between 70 and 75, so say a 3mpg drop from 70 to 75. Exactly what I was thinking.

Again, just waiting for someone with a Scangauge to do the Focus all scientific-like....
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Old 04-05-2012, 03:13 PM   #700
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Whatever, it appears you must want to be argumentative. Get a life.
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