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Old 03-28-2012, 12:35 AM   #121
goinloco1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elsolo View Post
Another thing not mentioned (or I missed it) about loading up on the converter while footbraking:

The torque can get the suspension to preload more than you want. Now I have never drag raced a FWD, just the old chevelle. But if I load up the converter to 2500 rpm, the suspension loads up before the launch and it won't "hit" the tires during the launch and wheelspin is the result. Footbrake it to 1500 and it plants the tires hard when you stab the throttle.

If you are watching, the car raises up while footbraking, and that suspension travel is wasted because it is no longer used to plant the tires.

Once again, that RWD not FWD, since I have ZERO experience launching a econocar at the strip, I don't know how you are supposed to get them to plant the tires.
Its pretty much the same with both. too much on a fwd and you spin (or if you forget to turn off the traction control, fall flat on your face for a sec). just have to find the happy medium where you get a bark when the tires bite, but the motor isn't lugged down and playing catchup.
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Old 03-28-2012, 04:06 AM   #122
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Lets assume that you have enough torque to never lug it down.
Too much rpm while footbraking preloads the suspension too much, where with a transbrake (or clutch pedal) that problem is completely avoided.
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Old 03-28-2012, 03:36 PM   #123
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staging is when you pull up to the lights and set the tree (staging lights for your lane come on). the tree doesnt drop until both cars are staged.
first or last to stage doesn't matter. if your first, wait to do anything until you see the next lanes stage lights to come on. then set the brakes with your left foot (auto) and when the first light drops bring the rpms up and launch on the third yellow. by the time your tire rolls through the beam the green will have dropped. try not to anticipate it tho or you may end up redlighting.
Everything in racing comes down to two things, practice and asking if you dont know.
Plenty of the older guys at the track would be happy to answer, they were starting out at one time too.
I see. Next time I go to the drags (should be within two weeks) I'll try it out. Hopefully I get enough runs in to try a few different things.

But is it also bad for an MTX to start revving the RPMs too soon too? Like, say the MTX guy pulls up to the staging area, gets set, and starts revving like 8 seconds before the green light, is that just as bad for it as it would be for the ATX driver?



Quote:
Originally Posted by elsolo View Post
Lets assume that you have enough torque to never lug it down.
Too much rpm while footbraking preloads the suspension too much, where with a transbrake (or clutch pedal) that problem is completely avoided.
What if you do it too low? I think my goal will be to get the RPMs right around 1,500-2k for launch.
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Old 03-28-2012, 04:20 PM   #124
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Really, I have no idea how to launch a FWD car, they might be completely opposite as far as suspension because you don't want to transfer weight to the rear.

I was just trying to add something to the footbrake topic.

Each of these cars are different, you just gotta see what works for your car's power and suspension setup, on your tires, on that track, at that time of day. But that's part of the fun and challenge.
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Old 03-28-2012, 04:30 PM   #125
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My fastest run so far was a 17 flat, but that was my first run in a FWD car ever and I left T/C on and had a terrible launch. I'm hoping for mid to low 16's once I've got launching and shifting under control.
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Old 03-28-2012, 05:10 PM   #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elsolo View Post
Another thing not mentioned (or I missed it) about loading up on the converter while footbraking:

The torque can get the suspension to preload more than you want. Now I have never drag raced a FWD, just the old chevelle. But if I load up the converter to 2500 rpm, the suspension loads up before the launch and it won't "hit" the tires during the launch and wheelspin is the result. Footbrake it to 1500 and it plants the tires hard when you stab the throttle.

If you are watching, the car raises up while footbraking, and that suspension travel is wasted because it is no longer used to plant the tires.

Once again, that RWD not FWD, since I have ZERO experience launching a econocar at the strip, I don't know how you are supposed to get them to plant the tires.
What you are describing to me about pre-loading suspension these are all terms are practices used for a rwd car. We are not talking rwd here. We are talking FWD. We are talking about a low stall converter that bogs the car off the line. You stab the gas, it flashes several hundered rpm's higher and results in a better 60ft time in our application.

Would I do this with rwd mustang with a healthy push-rod or mod motor hell no, but unless you get a decent stall torque this talk about pre-loading suspension is for fast rwd cars.

I'll show you a clip of my car taking off with street tires, stock converter, on the foot brake @2200rpm. For reference that's up against a 2.4L T/C PT Cruiser.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANH3XxcNkRA

I tried like hell to get more out of the converter but she won't stall more then that with the wtq it's making.

So are we on the same page that launching a low powered fwd is much different then launching a healthy v8?

Trust me I would be doing what you described if I owned and raced a v8.
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Old 03-28-2012, 05:16 PM   #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DoomsdayFAN View Post
I see. Next time I go to the drags (should be within two weeks) I'll try it out. Hopefully I get enough runs in to try a few different things.

But is it also bad for an MTX to start revving the RPMs too soon too? Like, say the MTX guy pulls up to the staging area, gets set, and starts revving like 8 seconds before the green light, is that just as bad for it as it would be for the ATX driver?





What if you do it too low? I think my goal will be to get the RPMs right around 1,500-2k for launch.
Your car is going to bog down regardless of the rpm unfornutely but more so with lower rpm.

I'm having Andre @ Edge Racing Converters build a 3500rpm stall converter for my car. Traction won't be an issues on some 13x8 boggarts with 23x8.5" M&H D.O.T Street Slcks. If I could have him build a 4000rpm stall that wouldn't be too loose up top I would but seems 3500rpm is the limit on the motor mods I have right now.
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Old 03-28-2012, 08:48 PM   #128
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While the suspension doesn't preload the same as a rwd, a fwd does preload the a-arm bushings. you can preload them past the point needed which usually ends up causing the tires to spin or bad wheelhop (urethane a-arm and engine mount bushings usually cure it in a modified svt. Did mine anyway). Gotta remember on a fwd the engine, tranny, a-arm bushings are all part of the suspension and they preload. Its a totally different geometry to a rwd. altho both do the same weight transfer to the rear, which in a fwd if its not controlled will cause traction loss.
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Old 03-28-2012, 10:13 PM   #129
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Yeah, it's all opposite of what I know about, I try to get the front wheels off the ground.
If I ever decide to drag race my Focus, I'll have to turn the motor sideways and bolt it to a powerglide. :)
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Old 03-28-2012, 10:47 PM   #130
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Hmmm, interesting idea...lol oh wait a minute, just get the kugel components kit. find a wrecked cobra for donations and hold on to something :)
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