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Old 03-27-2012, 02:10 AM   #111
DoomsdayFAN
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The sweet spot for me is about 2k, but I usually hold it there for about 2-3 seconds before launching. I'll try not to do that any more. I'll have to practice brake-torquing right as the first or second light hits, then by green I'll pop it and go.
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Old 03-27-2012, 09:00 AM   #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NanoAnimal View Post
power braking... you don't do that at the lights...maybe in the burnout box

YouTube Video
ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


brake-torquing... you do do this at the lights.
You;ll need to practice and find the cars sweetspot.
This is used to load the torque converter, trans, and driveline before launching. Do not load before the lights start dropping, the longer you do, the hotter the tranny gets. light hits let loose and throttle it. you want the torque converter to flash over just after you throttle it. you'll know when your launching at the right rpm as you should get some slight tire squeel with street tires, keep throttling it and let them grab. If you get wheelhop, get out of the throttle immediately and let the race go, its not worth breaking the car to try to win something you've pretty much lost already. If your tires break loose back of and get right back into it. Don't try to push through the burnout, you'll lose more time than backing out and getting back into it.
Also a tip I don't see anyone telling you, don't pull up to the light in the track everyone is using, its plenty wide to launch with your tires slightly out of the tracks where the tac isnt worn off.
YouTube Video
ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


Oh, and please explain how your supposedly flashing a converter with the method you described
To be honest it really sounds like you copied that from a google search lol.

Racers call your "brake torquing" launching on the foot brake. This is the recommended approach for braket racers and one that I use while in competition because it pre-loads the converter and allows a much better reaction time then flashing the converter because of the time it takes for the converter to get up to the engagement rpm.

The problem is you assume we drive high wtq v8 muscle where you need to launch your vechicle at X RPM to avoid excessive wheel spin. Drag Racers may also use it when using a high stall converter that has an engagement rpm above what they need to launch at. In this instance they will use the foot brake to load the converter to the rpm they need to launch at.

Now for our application, not reading from the internet, actually making over 40 passes on a Zetec powered automatic the factory stall converter is a joke. 2200RPM stall on a car that doesn't make any useful WTQ or Power until 3500rpm's means the higher you can get your rpm's up on the launch the better off you are traction dependant. Flashing the converter allows 200-300 more rpm resulting in a better launch. Like I said flashing results in a 2400-2500rpm launch instead of 2200rpm on the foot brake.

If you want to question my knowledge then I would expect you have experience with an automatic duratec or zetec and/or have many passes down the strip testing these two approaches.

I'm talking from real Drag Racing experience with our fwd 4cyl platforms, not Bench racing comapring V8's launch approach.
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Old 03-27-2012, 09:06 AM   #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DoomsdayFAN View Post
Well, I'm keeping my figures crossed that assuming I get a near-perfect launch with these mods:

CAI
67mm TB
4-1 Race header
2.5 Flex
Stealth Exhaust
Tune
Lower Engine Torque Mount

Empty Car (take out the spare tire/jack/tools/etc)
25 PSI in the front tires
Flashing (during the launch)


...that I'll be able to run at least somewhere in the mid-15s.
You won't run mid 15's unless you loose more then just the rear items in the car. WIth similiar mods I had ran a low 16's pass.

Intake, 4-1 Header, Exhaust, UDP, Tune, Gutted Trunk, street tires, 2550lbs weight, 2750lbs with me in it. PS, & A/C in the car, complete street legal car.
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Old 03-27-2012, 03:15 PM   #114
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Damn. Well, I'll give it my best shot and see what happens.


So it sounds like the best thing to do would be to launch it rather than flash it, thus alloing it to jump off the line faster?

But I'm still sorta on the whole thing.
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Old 03-27-2012, 06:49 PM   #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllOutZX2 View Post
To be honest it really sounds like you copied that from a google search lol.

Racers call your "brake torquing" launching on the foot brake. This is the recommended approach for braket racers and one that I use while in competition because it pre-loads the converter and allows a much better reaction time then flashing the converter because of the time it takes for the converter to get up to the engagement rpm.

The problem is you assume we drive high wtq v8 muscle where you need to launch your vechicle at X RPM to avoid excessive wheel spin. Drag Racers may also use it when using a high stall converter that has an engagement rpm above what they need to launch at. In this instance they will use the foot brake to load the converter to the rpm they need to launch at.

Now for our application, not reading from the internet, actually making over 40 passes on a Zetec powered automatic the factory stall converter is a joke. 2200RPM stall on a car that doesn't make any useful WTQ or Power until 3500rpm's means the higher you can get your rpm's up on the launch the better off you are traction dependant. Flashing the converter allows 200-300 more rpm resulting in a better launch. Like I said flashing results in a 2400-2500rpm launch instead of 2200rpm on the foot brake.

If you want to question my knowledge then I would expect you have experience with an automatic duratec or zetec and/or have many passes down the strip testing these two approaches.

I'm talking from real Drag Racing experience with our fwd 4cyl platforms, not Bench racing comapring V8's launch approach.
since your so experienced, you would know different terms are used in different parts of the country but power breaking has never changed no matter where I've raced (cali, kentucky, arkansas, mo, florida, texas,sd, minnesota,iowa, etc).
No experience? thats pretty sad to say to someone thats been racing since you were still crapping your diapers.
the dura I used to have... no idea where the timeslips are, theres vid from the strip at the first ff somewhere...not the fastest thing in the world.


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and my newest toy which runs 9.82 1/8 stock...


any other stupid comments? I've owned a 00 sedan w/auto. my 02svt, an 07 sedan w/auto. And I've raced all and all over the states, yet I don't know what I'm talking about?
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Old 03-27-2012, 07:45 PM   #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NanoAnimal View Post
since your so experienced, you would know different terms are used in different parts of the country but power breaking has never changed no matter where I've raced (cali, kentucky, arkansas, mo, florida, texas,sd, minnesota,iowa, etc).
No experience? thats pretty sad to say to someone thats been racing since you were still crapping your diapers.
the dura I used to have... no idea where the timeslips are, theres vid from the strip at the first ff somewhere...not the fastest thing in the world.


My toy... (at 5psi)



and my newest toy which runs 9.82 1/8 stock...


any other stupid comments? I've owned a 00 sedan w/auto. my 02svt, an 07 sedan w/auto. And I've raced all and all over the states, yet I don't know what I'm talking about?

Schoolin newbs lol
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Old 03-27-2012, 09:14 PM   #117
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Schoolin newbs lol
not schoolin, correcting. Bad info for the track can cause alot of damage. brake torque too long and your going to pick up pieces or your tranny isn't going to last long. Theres a fine line on how long you want to do things before you hear poof.
Just because your staged doesnt mean the guy in the next lane is yet. you don't want to do anything until staged lights are lit in both lanes (in heads up). its a favorite trick on newbs to let them stage first and get hot and bothered, then slowly stage yourself and let them screw themselves up when the lights drop (red light, bad launch, asleep at the light, etc).
and those are only a couple I've owned...the built and stripped 72 cutlass i had scared the crap out of me to race, But I'd sure as hell like to build another :)
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Old 03-27-2012, 11:27 PM   #118
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Another thing not mentioned (or I missed it) about loading up on the converter while footbraking:

The torque can get the suspension to preload more than you want. Now I have never drag raced a FWD, just the old chevelle. But if I load up the converter to 2500 rpm, the suspension loads up before the launch and it won't "hit" the tires during the launch and wheelspin is the result. Footbrake it to 1500 and it plants the tires hard when you stab the throttle.

If you are watching, the car raises up while footbraking, and that suspension travel is wasted because it is no longer used to plant the tires.

Once again, that RWD not FWD, since I have ZERO experience launching a econocar at the strip, I don't know how you are supposed to get them to plant the tires.
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Old 03-27-2012, 11:53 PM   #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NanoAnimal View Post
not schoolin, correcting. Bad info for the track can cause alot of damage. brake torque too long and your going to pick up pieces or your tranny isn't going to last long. Theres a fine line on how long you want to do things before you hear poof.
Just because your staged doesnt mean the guy in the next lane is yet. you don't want to do anything until staged lights are lit in both lanes (in heads up). its a favorite trick on newbs to let them stage first and get hot and bothered, then slowly stage yourself and let them screw themselves up when the lights drop (red light, bad launch, asleep at the light, etc).
and those are only a couple I've owned...the built and stripped 72 cutlass i had scared the crap out of me to race, But I'd sure as hell like to build another :)
Is staging too soon in a MTX just as bad as doing it in an ATX?
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Old 03-28-2012, 12:29 AM   #120
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Is staging too soon in a MTX just as bad as doing it in an ATX?
staging is when you pull up to the lights and set the tree (staging lights for your lane come on). the tree doesnt drop until both cars are staged.
first or last to stage doesn't matter. if your first, wait to do anything until you see the next lanes stage lights to come on. then set the brakes with your left foot (auto) and when the first light drops bring the rpms up and launch on the third yellow. by the time your tire rolls through the beam the green will have dropped. try not to anticipate it tho or you may end up redlighting.
Everything in racing comes down to two things, practice and asking if you dont know.
Plenty of the older guys at the track would be happy to answer, they were starting out at one time too.
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