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ZETEC Performance (2000-2004) The place to chat about any 2.0L Zetec engine performance, tuning and exhaust related upgrades.

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Old 03-22-2012, 09:25 AM   #21
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starting the Zetec engine and holding it at 2500 for 20 min ? I WOULDNT RECOMMEND THIS
Magus , bearing to crank surface yes use lube, bearing to bearing seating surface no oil but you dont have to be so worried about touching the bearings or using rubber gloves , biggest thing is clean bearing and clean crank

Tom
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Old 03-22-2012, 08:10 PM   #22
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I'm anal about the bearings too. Dry back so sets down solid in the bore. I handle them carefully too. Get a hard spec of dust trapped on backside of that bearing a couple of times and you'll reconsider. They often come out of the box utterly filthy and static makes the detritus on them tend to stick. On install they need to truly be surgically clean.

I wanna hear about why you can't run the engine at 2500. I've done it on hundreds of engines, including 700+ inch race motors costing $50K each.

Add to that every cam manufacturer on the planet will disavow cam warranty as soon as you tell him you idled it for any length of time beyond a few seconds. You want FULL oil pressure/splash on the cam lobes RIGHT NOW, they wear more in the first 10 minutes than they ever will after.

You NEVER longterm idle a brand new motor with new cams until past initial break-in. A few seconds,say when you first crank it, to listen for abnormal noise is OK. I lightly rack the motor a time or two. Lots of times I'll do the initial start with no water in motor, I like to 'cook' the head gasket a bit and ring/wall temp comes up faster to bed in quick. Shutoff and look for leaks. Wait maybe 10-15 minutes and add water. If all well then next crank it goes to 2500, it doesn't have to be exact. You're looking for higher oil pressure. Somebody stands over motor with trickling water hose to hit radiator if necessary, you want motor to get hot but not too hot.

Doesn't have to be strictly 20 minutes either but need at least 10. We probably did the pro stock engines shorter simply to save ring and valve job wear, rather do that on the racetrack. There's no reason at all but good result to stretch time on a lowly stock motor though.

Maybe it's a boost thing, if so I'd be looking to kill boost during break-in.

To OP, ANY motor that's been disassembled needs a bit of time to realize it's back together. I wouldn't long idle at first even on a dead stocker. Get it out and drive it quick so varied engine speeds can help you. You need to at least observe new ring break-in procedure if I read the posts right.
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Old 03-23-2012, 12:28 PM   #23
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Yes, make sure the block is clean and no assy. lube spills onto the block before you install the bearings. The old, run the engine at 2500 was for flat tappet camshafts in V-8 engines which required some heat at the cam lobes and lifters to heat treat them together and to insure a lot of oil splash reached the cam and lifter assy. On V-8 engines most of the oil that hits the cam comes from the crankshaft spinning and spraying the cam with plenty of oil. I just crank em up, check for leaks and take em for a little ride to make sure everything is o.k. I use surgical gloves to keep from washing my hands all of the time. That being said, being clean at assembly time and making a checklist are very important to the longevity of your engine. The metallurgy is so good now, that modern engines do not need the anal retentive break in procedures that were required in the old days. Just do not dog a new motor or you will run into trouble.
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Old 03-23-2012, 01:02 PM   #24
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Have you guys actually built a Zetec engine , we are not talking about a V8 572 inch engine with roller cams like in my 55 chevy making over 900+HP where I have 960psi spring seat psi , I have NEVER run an engine at 2500 when i first start it and let it run for 20 min , thats silly old school , sorry never had a cam failure with a flat tappet cam and we built aboit 90+ engines a year for 27 years not one cam failure

For those that dont know the Zetec does not have lifters and has buckets that are soaking sitting in oil at idle and the Zetec has 50+psi oil psi most of the time even idle this isnt a V8 , the old school idea of higher rev at idle is to get more oil onto the lifters from the crank spinning so why give old school advise about how things work on a V8 this is a Focus Forum ?

Clean when assy engine yes , gloves to keep your hands clean sure , not touching the bearings or having to have surgically clean is a little over board this is a Zetec engine not a pro mor or Blown Alci engine which we also built

You guys need to keep in mind most these guys have never built an engine , dont have a way to get things surgically clean or even have the correct things to build the engine properly , I think plasta gauge SUCKS and no respectable engine builder should use it , most these guys think the locking lips are there to keep the bearing from spinning

They dont need to hear what old school guys do to v8 engine thats well... a little silly to be doing

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Old 03-23-2012, 03:32 PM   #25
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so then how would you build it? people only reiterate what they are taught, unless they are taught otherwise. I'd sure like to know how to build my engine so that it lasts another 200,000 miles without an issue.

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Old 03-23-2012, 05:37 PM   #26
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I try to reiterate what I have learned with working on engines for 34 years and working on the Focus sence 2000

Good rules to go by for a safe rebuild , good quality parts , set proper clearances , proper TQ , and ask if you dont know

Tom
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Old 03-26-2012, 01:14 AM   #27
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There is no difference between one of these tinkertoys and any other engine. 34 years should had told you that, now we hear how 'different' it is. Give me a break.

We had an AMC, that's right a RAMBLER, 370 inch motor that made 750 hp and ran in the eights. The 700 inch fat block made over 1500 hp. So much for your little motor. We ran several 500-600 inchers back in the 70s.

And you're talking about a 150-200 hp motor. I've dealt with plenty of bikes that make that much and 2/3 the size.

Does not have lifters???? A lifter, bucket, tappet, all the same part.

They do NOT have 50 psi at idle unless stone cold, hot it drops. Ford spec is 20-30 psi @ 800-850 rpm.

You never go by plastigauge reading alone if possible. I bet you use vernier calipers, even more of an error. I never even mentioned plastigauge, you did, but in a pinch I can build a 10000 rpm motor that will stay together all day long using it. Apparently you can't because you think it sucks. Gotta wonder what the evidence for that is.

The old school flat tappet cams were actually machined so that the lobe is NOT FLAT, there is a very slight angle that wears in, the high edge makes the lifter spin. On initial start the tappet is actually edge-riding the cam lobe. It quickly wears in to flat unless something goes wrong making dead lobe. If you idled flat tappet and no damage then you did not run a big cam. Apparently you are even better than the cam manufacturers, you should contact them, they will be wanting to talk to you about a job. In other words I don't buy it.

You're trying to scare people. You still haven't said why you can't go to 2500 rpm, maybe you're scared to rev yours outright. It won't hurt a properly built motor at all.

2500 rpm/20 minutes was indeed what they textbook taught. In hindsight, I've looked at it closer and decided we probably didn't take that long. Probably closer to 5 minutes on a race car (which had a high speed idle anyway) and 10-15 on a stocker. We never lost any motors, the horror stories came from other people when they brought in their junk asking you to rebuild it after they'd torn it all up. The only engine I ever had trouble with was 455 Olds, and later found out why that guy was tearing up his stuff. It was preventable once the was pried loose from his way of thinking.

Look here, you put the idea out there that these motors are somehow different, that old school knowledge is not valuable. Yet in same breath you parade 34 years of YOUR old school experience like it IS valuable. Which is it??? That somehow makes you look less, uh, convincing shall we say. I hope your engine building skills are better than your logic structuring.

I've got 3 zetec cars. I do all the work on them, yes, one of them came apart for a rebuild several years ago. I do all my cam timing and all 3 don't shred belt and just run and run. I don't even loosen sprockets, in fact I recommend against it unlike Mr. Ford. I've never paid a cent my entire life for someone else to fix anything on a car. I rebuild everything, motor, ATX, MTX, front end, rear end, you name it. I rebuilt so many motorcycles I can't count, so many domestic cars the same. Ford, Mopar, GM, AMC. We had a garage/hi-perf shop across the street from the local GM dealership. They constantly tried to get their in house BBC drag cars to outrun our AMC smallblocks, they couldn't. We ended up rebuilding all those BBCs too and they ran even faster. Cigarette boats with twin BBC so multiple car dealership owners could race each other from Florida to the Bahamas. Lots of fun there. Them boys sure knew how to party.

I've done car stuff for 46 years, somewhere in there I spent a bunch of years on big newspaper web presses too, I rebuilt those too and they ran like gangbusters. You should try timing like 15-20 gears to each other, it makes me laugh when I hear complaints about variable cam timing units on these cars causing timing troubles.
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Old 03-26-2012, 05:51 AM   #28
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amc49, thanks for restoring my faith in humanity. I am only sharing what I have learned from building and racing cars since 1976. I have built over 26 Zetec engines,including turbocharged and svt, over the last 10 years and not one has blown up. So I know what I am doing. My engine building methods, break in procedures, were passed down to me by very knowledgeable machinists and engine builder/enthusiasts. I have been a machinist for 30 years and there is no way an amateur can correctly mic a part. That is why I recommend plastigage, it is accurate no matter what I hear Turbofocus say. I only want novice engine builders to be careful and not get ripped off. I have never paid a mechanic to do anything to my vehicles.
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Old 03-26-2012, 08:22 AM   #29
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Just another cheap shot and I am done with this thread. 1turbofocus, how do you have time to build anything with over 17,000 posts. Put down the laptop and drive!!!! All you do is blow hot air ans act superior, ughh!
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Old 03-26-2012, 08:58 AM   #30
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Please, this was a thread simply asking about the best assembly lube. Obviously there is not an exact science when building an engine other than taking your time, doing it right, and making sure everything is as clean and accurately assembled as possible (and your situation allows).

As far as 1TurboFocus, he has been a member since 2003... not that hard to get that many posts over 8.5 years. that averages about to about 5.6 posts per day, AMC49 is not that far behind with about a 3.1 posts per day.

As the OP I would hope that this thread can stay to the main points being asked. if not perhaps this thread should be locked and have any threads non relevant to the OP be removed. I will let the moderators make the necessary judgement calls.

thank you everyone who has provided valuable input on helping me build my first Zetec motor. I should be getting all my parts back from the machine shop this week and will start assembling the bottom end... still a ways out before getting her to run, need a new oil pump, all the gaskets, ARP mains, and take the head to the shop to work on... but can only do things one pay check at a time.
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