knock sensor issues - Page 4 - Ford Focus Forum, Ford Focus ST Forum
Ford Focus Forum
HomeContact UsAbout UsGalleryDiscussion ForumsMarketplace


Go Back   Ford Focus Forum, Ford Focus ST Forum > Ford Focus Tech Discussions > Focus Tuning Chat

Focus Tuning Chat Discuss performance tuning options for your Ford Focus.

Search This Forum | Image Search | Advanced Search    
Ford Focus Tire & Wheels FocusFanatics Merchandise

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-27-2011, 10:02 AM   #31
illinipo
Token Engin-nerd
 
illinipo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Fan#: 37693
Location: Well wouldn't you like to know?, Not Listed
What I Drive: dirty wag; Party; Bavarian phallus

Posts: 3,408
FF Reputation: 272 illinipo Outstanding Standing Member illinipo Outstanding Standing Member illinipo Outstanding Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (19)
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1turbofocus View Post
He has the correct KS logged in his list

Tom
Quote:
Originally Posted by EggYolkedZX3 View Post
the first "KNOCK SENSOR RETARD LIMIT" DMR in the SBAF6 processor code list
Not if he is using the first one.

But what the hell do I know (nothing apparently)
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis_Grant
Remember this list: Bilstein; Penske; Koni; Ohlins; Sachs; Dynamic Suspension.

Not on this list? Almost certainly crap.
SUV this!
illinipo is offline  
    Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 04-27-2011, 01:16 PM   #32
BowerR64
Focus Fanatic
 
BowerR64's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Fan#: 78699
Location: Kansas city, MO
What I Drive: 2007 ZX3 SE

Posts: 2,377
Points 11,565, Level 70
Points: 11,565, Level: 70 Points: 11,565, Level: 70 Points: 11,565, Level: 70
Level Up 79% Completed
Level up: 79% Level up: 79% Level up: 79%
Forum Activity 3%
Activity: 3% Activity: 3% Activity: 3%
FF Reputation: 12 BowerR64 Great Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (2)
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1turbofocus View Post
Bower you have a Duratec and your KS readings will be diff

He has the correct KS logged in his list

Tom
ok i thought he just wanted to see some other logs.
__________________
It's not important to win, it's important to make the other guy lose.
BowerR64 is offline  
    Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-27-2011, 06:00 PM   #33
EggYolkedZX3
Focus Enthusiast
 
EggYolkedZX3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Fan#: 61654
Location: Henderson, NV
What I Drive: '01 Yellow ZX3, '04 Blue SVT w/EAP

Posts: 126
Points 859, Level 15
Points: 859, Level: 15 Points: 859, Level: 15 Points: 859, Level: 15
Level Up 59% Completed
Level up: 59% Level up: 59% Level up: 59%
Forum Activity 0%
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
FF Reputation: 8 EggYolkedZX3 Good Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (3)
Quote:
Originally Posted by illinipo View Post
SBAF6 has two DMRs that are described as KNOCK SENSOR RETARD LIMIT. I've talked to SCT about this at least 10 times over the last 3 years and all they have done was change the name of one of them, not the description. You need to take a closer look at the names, or download the latest livelink if you cannot see the difference I outline below.

KNK_RET_LIM is the first one. There is a table in the ECU with axes of RPM against load that simply limits the amount of knock retard you can get. It is -5 in almost all cells, with a few at low and high rpm at -4. The reason you are seeing -5 on this DMR only when you are moving or transbraking is the sensor is not allowed to be active at all until 0.359 load, and you would be hard pressed to see that much load without the car in gear (Tom already metioned this earlier in the thread). So basically whenever you are driving, as you describe, this should rightly show -5.

KNK_SEN_RETARD is the second one, the one you actually want to log, this is the actual knock retard. This one you ought to be able to at least see it ramp down (instead of jump down) to -5, and ramp slowly back up (instead of jump up) when you let off the throttle, if it is indeed pulling full knock retard.
You and Tom are both right. Thanks for the awesome detailed response though!

It turns out the right KNK SEN RETARD was being logged. I had the view on the "long name PIDs" setting instead of the "16 Char Name PIDs". In the long name veiw, both DMR's show up exactly the same as "KNOCK SENSOR RETARD LIMIT" but for some reason the correct one to be logged comes up first in the PID list. In the 16 view, the correct one comes up second on the list?

But yes, the graph shows a short little spike (about 0.6-1.0 advancement) then drops straight down to -5. Just waiting for my new one to see if anything changes.
EggYolkedZX3 is offline  
    Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-27-2011, 06:02 PM   #34
illinipo
Token Engin-nerd
 
illinipo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Fan#: 37693
Location: Well wouldn't you like to know?, Not Listed
What I Drive: dirty wag; Party; Bavarian phallus

Posts: 3,408
FF Reputation: 272 illinipo Outstanding Standing Member illinipo Outstanding Standing Member illinipo Outstanding Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (19)
Quote:
Originally Posted by EggYolkedZX3 View Post
You and Tom are both right. Thanks for the awesome detailed response though!

It turns out the right KNK SEN RETARD was being logged. I had the view on the "long name PIDs" setting instead of the "16 Char Name PIDs". In the long name veiw, both DMR's show up exactly the same as "KNOCK SENSOR RETARD LIMIT" but for some reason the correct one to be logged comes up first in the PID list. In the 16 view, the correct one comes up second on the list?

But yes, the graph shows a short little spike (about 0.6-1.0 advancement) then drops straight down to -5. Just waiting for my new one to see if anything changes.
After going through the same process on a NFC1 car of buying a new sensor and lashing the valves to min spec, with no change in the sensor activity, I would recommend you guys just lower the sensitivity from the get-go. The combination of listening to it and lowering sensitivity would be very effective.

But supposedly I don't know what I'm doing so you probably should just ignore my posts.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis_Grant
Remember this list: Bilstein; Penske; Koni; Ohlins; Sachs; Dynamic Suspension.

Not on this list? Almost certainly crap.
SUV this!
illinipo is offline  
    Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-27-2011, 07:04 PM   #35
BowerR64
Focus Fanatic
 
BowerR64's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Fan#: 78699
Location: Kansas city, MO
What I Drive: 2007 ZX3 SE

Posts: 2,377
Points 11,565, Level 70
Points: 11,565, Level: 70 Points: 11,565, Level: 70 Points: 11,565, Level: 70
Level Up 79% Completed
Level up: 79% Level up: 79% Level up: 79%
Forum Activity 3%
Activity: 3% Activity: 3% Activity: 3%
FF Reputation: 12 BowerR64 Great Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (2)
Quote:
Originally Posted by illinipo View Post
But supposedly I don't know what I'm doing so you probably should just ignore my posts.
Why do you keep saying that?

Maybe you should make that your sig so you wont have to keep typing it.
__________________
It's not important to win, it's important to make the other guy lose.
BowerR64 is offline  
    Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-28-2011, 07:46 AM   #36
Roushturboedzx3
I Fab Too Much
 
Roushturboedzx3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Fan#: 42814
Location: CLearwater, FL
What I Drive: 2002 Liquid Gray ZX3

Posts: 4,739
Points 14,483, Level 78
Points: 14,483, Level: 78 Points: 14,483, Level: 78 Points: 14,483, Level: 78
Level Up 9% Completed
Level up: 9% Level up: 9% Level up: 9%
Forum Activity 1%
Activity: 1% Activity: 1% Activity: 1%
FF Reputation: 20 Roushturboedzx3 Great Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (18)
My knock sensor has been turned off for over a year now. There not accurate. I have logs of it picking up noise from the wastegate and it would pull 2degrees. Also when I would shift fast it would think it was knock and pull 5 degrees then slowly put it back in. As long as your tuner knows what he is doing there should be no problems. Also I fill up at any gas station. Hess, Bp, sans club. Etc.
__________________
New: 2012 Mustang GT premium
SOLD:RACE GAS 602whp 501tq Pump Gas SAE 454whp
Garrett GT3582r, Topmount, built motor, Ported head,Tuned by Fernando@RacingPartsSolution
I may not be the baddest, but the baddest dont Fu** with me
Roushturboedzx3 is offline  
    Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-28-2011, 01:58 PM   #37
BowerR64
Focus Fanatic
 
BowerR64's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Fan#: 78699
Location: Kansas city, MO
What I Drive: 2007 ZX3 SE

Posts: 2,377
Points 11,565, Level 70
Points: 11,565, Level: 70 Points: 11,565, Level: 70 Points: 11,565, Level: 70
Level Up 79% Completed
Level up: 79% Level up: 79% Level up: 79%
Forum Activity 3%
Activity: 3% Activity: 3% Activity: 3%
FF Reputation: 12 BowerR64 Great Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (2)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roushturboedzx3 View Post
My knock sensor has been turned off for over a year now. There not accurate. I have logs of it picking up noise from the wastegate and it would pull 2degrees. Also when I would shift fast it would think it was knock and pull 5 degrees then slowly put it back in. As long as your tuner knows what he is doing there should be no problems. Also I fill up at any gas station. Hess, Bp, sans club. Etc.
How do you have it turned off?

I wondered about that myself, when i started reading about what they are and how they work. Then listening to sound clips i must say it sounded a little iffy to me. I then read where some one said they use some kind of audio filtering or somthing to single out the knock. It makes a little more sence till the OP said they are only $30. for the sensor now im starting to wonder.

If i raced my car i dont think ide want one pulling timming out but for how im using my car ill leave it alone.
__________________
It's not important to win, it's important to make the other guy lose.
BowerR64 is offline  
    Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-28-2011, 04:47 PM   #38
1turbofocus
FF Affiliate
 
1turbofocus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Fan#: 1123
Location: Belmont, NC
What I Drive: 2000 ZX3 / 2002 SVT Turbocharged

Posts: 21,938
Points 50,525, Level 100
Points: 50,525, Level: 100 Points: 50,525, Level: 100 Points: 50,525, Level: 100
Level Up 0% Completed
Level up: 0% Level up: 0% Level up: 0%
Forum Activity 26%
Activity: 26% Activity: 26% Activity: 26%
FF Reputation: 154 1turbofocus Excellent Standing Member 1turbofocus Excellent Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (28)
You actually do want it to pull timing if you have knock and on the Zetec and Duratec they work perfectly on about 99% of the Foci

Its my opinion to leave the knock sensor on as it is a HUGH safety for your engine , yes you may see some knock on gear change but thats perfectly normal because of tip in timing adding timing on tipin in among other things

Please leave your KS on at all times unless you have a SVT

Tom
__________________
Focus-Power: Your #1 Source for Ford Focus Speed, Tuning & Performance!

Customer Support
AIM: hpdyno
Email: hpdyno@aol.com
Phone: 704-249-3745
Site: focus-power.com

Elder 1turbofocus
1turbofocus is offline  
    Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-28-2011, 06:43 PM   #39
EggYolkedZX3
Focus Enthusiast
 
EggYolkedZX3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Fan#: 61654
Location: Henderson, NV
What I Drive: '01 Yellow ZX3, '04 Blue SVT w/EAP

Posts: 126
Points 859, Level 15
Points: 859, Level: 15 Points: 859, Level: 15 Points: 859, Level: 15
Level Up 59% Completed
Level up: 59% Level up: 59% Level up: 59%
Forum Activity 0%
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
FF Reputation: 8 EggYolkedZX3 Good Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (3)
I just got my new KS and rear o2 sensor thanks to RockAuto.com, only took them 2 days! Once my car cools down, I'll be installing both things and report back if anything changes.
EggYolkedZX3 is offline  
    Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-28-2011, 09:21 PM   #40
Roushturboedzx3
I Fab Too Much
 
Roushturboedzx3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Fan#: 42814
Location: CLearwater, FL
What I Drive: 2002 Liquid Gray ZX3

Posts: 4,739
Points 14,483, Level 78
Points: 14,483, Level: 78 Points: 14,483, Level: 78 Points: 14,483, Level: 78
Level Up 9% Completed
Level up: 9% Level up: 9% Level up: 9%
Forum Activity 1%
Activity: 1% Activity: 1% Activity: 1%
FF Reputation: 20 Roushturboedzx3 Great Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (18)
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1turbofocus View Post
You actually do want it to pull timing if you have knock and on the Zetec and Duratec they work perfectly on about 99% of the Foci

Its my opinion to leave the knock sensor on as it is a HUGH safety for your engine , yes you may see some knock on gear change but thats perfectly normal because of tip in timing adding timing on tipin in among other things

Please leave your KS on at all times unless you have a SVT

Tom
I agree a knock sensor is a nice backup if something goes wrong (gas, boost,etc) but the focus ones are not calibrated right. they pick up the noise from the drums on the dyno, road noise, wastegate, and shifting.

Pulling 5.5 degrees (not 5 like i thought) is not normal. the car fell on it face everytime.

Also you know as well as i do that chris focus blew the ringlands with a J&S on it when you tuned it. there was deto marks on the piston head. I bring chris car up cause it had the J&S on it and still went. I would love if we had a company that would make a nice External knock system for our cars that get away with the factory one.
__________________
New: 2012 Mustang GT premium
SOLD:RACE GAS 602whp 501tq Pump Gas SAE 454whp
Garrett GT3582r, Topmount, built motor, Ported head,Tuned by Fernando@RacingPartsSolution
I may not be the baddest, but the baddest dont Fu** with me
Roushturboedzx3 is offline  
    Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply

Bookmarks & Social Networks

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Ford Focus Forum, Ford Focus ST Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:04 PM.


Copyright 2002-2014 FocusFanatics.com. All Rights Reserved : Terms of Use : Privacy Policy : Advertise Information

Focus Fanatics Ford Focus Forum offers many fun ways for you to engage with other Ford Focus Owners from across the world. Whether it be about the aftermarket performance modifications, technical how-to's, European tuned suspension or awesome fuel economy similar to the Acura TLX or Fiesta ST. You can find all Ford Focus and Focus ST related information here. Join our Ford Focus discussion forums and chat with local Focus enthusiasts in your area.