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Old 10-19-2010, 05:43 PM   #11
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wow Im so glad I posted that vid. Im learning so much thank you guys ;)
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Old 10-21-2010, 04:12 PM   #12
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You also have to remember that on a mountain road you have a lot of decreasing radius turns and curves of different radii (connected without transitions) which makes it hard to pick the apex. The mountain dictates the road alignment and the driver has to adapt. You could also hear the co-driver giving instruction not to cut certain corners due to exposure or obstructions (Travis got lucky when he ignored one instruction). This means the middle of the road is sometimes the safest place to be.
Got ya. That does make sense. I would like to see the WRC guys take on the same mountains and see what their lines are.
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Old 10-21-2010, 05:59 PM   #13
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Wow, that looks like so much fun! Scary, but fun.
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Old 10-23-2010, 08:13 PM   #14
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Got ya. That does make sense. I would like to see the WRC guys take on the same mountains and see what their lines are.


Depends on whether pre-runs are allowed or not. What a lot of people don't realize is that WRC teams get to pre-run all stages for several days before the event. The co-driver writes his own pace notes during the pre-run so he'll be able to tell the driver specific conditions such as whether the turn has a decreasing radius, when he can or can't cut a corner, or how fast to take a yump (jump in rally lingo). In the U.S. pre running is not allowed. Each team is given (actually they pay for) a set of pace notes prepared by RallyAmerica or the organizer. Everybody then works from the same info and while in most cases it's very accurate it will not include the personalized info a co-driver would prepare for his particular driver.
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Old 10-23-2010, 11:02 PM   #15
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i did that climb in like 26 mins. lol
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Old 10-25-2010, 12:56 PM   #16
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Depends on whether pre-runs are allowed or not. What a lot of people don't realize is that WRC teams get to pre-run all stages for several days before the event. The co-driver writes his own pace notes during the pre-run so he'll be able to tell the driver specific conditions such as whether the turn has a decreasing radius, when he can or can't cut a corner, or how fast to take a yump (jump in rally lingo). In the U.S. pre running is not allowed. Each team is given (actually they pay for) a set of pace notes prepared by RallyAmerica or the organizer. Everybody then works from the same info and while in most cases it's very accurate it will not include the personalized info a co-driver would prepare for his particular driver.
That's very true. Except that Rally America usually gives us a one or two pass recce (pre-run) for regional events to make our own adjustments to their supplied notes. I don't know if it's different for national events. It would be a safety hazard if everyone went out driving 100% on jemba notes or notes that someone else made without having double checked the notes for themselves.
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Old 10-25-2010, 09:12 PM   #17
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That's very true. Except that Rally America usually gives us a one or two pass recce (pre-run) for regional events to make our own adjustments to their supplied notes. I don't know if it's different for national events. It would be a safety hazard if everyone went out driving 100% on jemba notes or notes that someone else made without having double checked the notes for themselves.

You guys are a bunch of sissy's nowadays (smiley here). Back in my day we drove 100% on notes called tulip diagrams be it a national or regional event. They were pictorial depictions of the route (arrows drawn in a box with the mileage of the tulip shown from the stage start in an adjacent box). Only major turns were shown (direction at an intersection, 90 degree or more turns etc. but never the equivalent of a 4, 5, or 6 turn today). Exposures (hazards) were shown with the mileage and one, two, or three exclamation marks. Sometimes if they were kind they'd say.... !!! ON RIGHT..... as an example. That usually meant something like a cliff on the right at a particular mileage. Sometimes they'd call out a potential yump as well. The notes were given to the co-driver about an hour or two before the event start. About enough time for him/her to highlite the exposures. Co-drivers could not write any other notes in the route book!

Co-drivers had to coordinate between the tulip/picture and the mileage and often gave the driver a mileage countdown to the instructions. You just hoped that your odo and the notes were in sync. The computer/odo was a critical tool and there was usually a special stage and/or transit just for odo checks. Pre-running a special stage was an absolute no no. In fact SCCA rules said being caught on a stage road within six months of an event could result in disqualification.
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Old 10-26-2010, 03:08 AM   #18
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If by "You guys are a bunch of sissy's nowadays." you mean "You guys are faster nowadays." then yes, you're right. I know all about the old route books with tulip diagrams. They're still used. But proper pace notes used in addition to the route book allow drivers to go much faster while being much safer because the detail allows them to know what is coming up over crests and around blind corners. In the days before pace notes, if the co-driver was just warning of cautions and intersections from the route book, then they were acting as little more than ballast. And yes trip meters are still a valuable tool and yes there is still a short route provided to check your trip meter and adjust for different tire sizes etc. Thanks very much for the information.
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