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Old 05-11-2010, 02:08 PM   #21
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Swaybars increase in stiffness to the 4th power of diameter--There is no reason that I can come up with that suggests that it is good to setup a Focus with a RSB that is over 200% stiffer than an SVT one (21mm). If that is what you need to get your car to 'handle', then perhaps you should really re-evaluate the spring and damper setup being used. A sway bar *should* be a tuning device--like the frosting on the cake...not as the "batter" of the recipe. By their very nature, big sways also reduce the independence on the suspension--how is that good? That goes for any car. It goes doubly for the Focus because of the rear LCA issue...reinforced or not. The amount of leverage generated by the 28mm RSB is well beyond the scope of design for that LCA.



A 25mm is plenty big--and a 28mm is 57% stiffer than that.
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Old 05-11-2010, 04:27 PM   #22
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Quote:
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Nobody ever does until they just break...
I haven't heard or seen anyone with the SVT LCA's have any issues at all...

I have heard of non SVT - (non reinforced LCA's) bend and some even break from this sway. IMO, if one runs the SVT LCA's they will not have any issues.
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Old 05-11-2010, 04:39 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Auto-X-ZTS View Post

Swaybars increase in stiffness to the 4th power of diameter--There is no reason that I can come up with that suggests that it is good to setup a Focus with a RSB that is over 200% stiffer than an SVT one (21mm). If that is what you need to get your car to 'handle', then perhaps you should really re-evaluate the spring and damper setup being used. A sway bar *should* be a tuning device--like the frosting on the cake...not as the "batter" of the recipe. By their very nature, big sways also reduce the independence on the suspension--how is that good? That goes for any car. It goes doubly for the Focus because of the rear LCA issue...reinforced or not. The amount of leverage generated by the 28mm RSB is well beyond the scope of design for that LCA.



A 25mm is plenty big--and a 28mm is 57% stiffer than that.
Have you driven any of the cars with the steeda 28.6 rear bar? Or are you basing this on only your opinion and no experience?

If the SVT LCA's are not bending or breaking, then the bar is obviously not beyond the design capacity.

As you said the sway bars are a tuning device, so why couldnt this sway bar compliment the driving style of those who are using it?
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Old 05-11-2010, 05:20 PM   #24
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^^Erik, maybe you just need to make that chart your signature :D Haha, jk.

But I do agree, I don't see a series where running bigger than a 22mm front and 25mm rear would provide and useful gains. Bigger than 22mm front = inside tire pickup all the time. Bigger than 25mm rear might as well have a solid rear axle.
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Old 05-11-2010, 07:25 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpeedOften View Post
Have you driven any of the cars with the steeda 28.6 rear bar? Or are you basing this on only your opinion and no experience?

If the SVT LCA's are not bending or breaking, then the bar is obviously not beyond the design capacity.

As you said the sway bars are a tuning device, so why couldnt this sway bar compliment the driving style of those who are using it?
SVT LCAs have broken...with 25mm RSBs as I recall....and that is a fact. The rest is my opinion. Being that I design and market swaybars (more as a hobby than a business), then I do think that I bring some credibility to the discussion. My swaybars are used on a National Championship (2008 ProSolo) winning FSP Focus. Nobody else can make that claim. Not Eibach. Not H&R. Not Steeda. What's your swaybar-tuning background? I hope it's more than "oh I went out on the interwebz and found the biggest, baddest bar I could find and hung it on the back of my car." I don't mean to come across as an A$$, but all too often that is really what is happening when I have this same discussion over and over...with no thought of how a suspension is a sum of parts all working in concert as a whole. Why take the compliance out of one of the best FWD rear suspensions on the market? Makes no sense to me.

I also have about 20 years of autocross background (Multiple Regional championships--was also the fastest Street Tire Focus at fj Jet-Fest I in 2005--4th overall) and two years of SCCA wheel-to-wheel roadrace experience (with 2 in-class race wins) on my resume... So with all due respect, no, I am not just blowing hot air.
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Old 05-11-2010, 10:15 PM   #26
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felt like! sizzle..

lets calm down, this is all very informative.
it really makes you break it all down and think about $h1t.. lol

if i were to swap your sway from my zx3 to my svt would i need anything? maybe more grease since i'll have to slide the bushings out right?
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Old 05-11-2010, 11:23 PM   #27
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Plug N Play. Maybe a bit more grease...but the ZX3 and the SVT are the same. All Focus sways interchange on all Foci--the only catch is if the RSB needs an adaptor kit (Steeda) or has OE bracket mounts. Its all pretty simple. Cars with OE RSBs are 21mm, except the SVT, Street Edition and S2--those are 22mm. If the car has an OE RSB, the FSB is 21mm, except the Street Edition Wagon--that is 22mm. If the car same sans RSB, the FSB is 18mm. But all sways interchange.
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Old 05-12-2010, 12:03 AM   #28
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yeah, the only reason i ask is cause i have that adapter kit! and the mounts on the SVT look farther apart. i'm gonna swap them!
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Old 05-13-2010, 07:15 PM   #29
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I like the way my car handles and deals with really shitty roads to boot. Is it the best setup no, does it do what I want yup.
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Old 05-17-2010, 07:07 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Auto-X-ZTS View Post
SVT LCAs have broken...with 25mm RSBs as I recall....and that is a fact. The rest is my opinion. Being that I design and market swaybars (more as a hobby than a business), then I do think that I bring some credibility to the discussion. My swaybars are used on a National Championship (2008 ProSolo) winning FSP Focus. Nobody else can make that claim. Not Eibach. Not H&R. Not Steeda. What's your swaybar-tuning background? I hope it's more than "oh I went out on the interwebz and found the biggest, baddest bar I could find and hung it on the back of my car." I don't mean to come across as an A$$, but all too often that is really what is happening when I have this same discussion over and over...with no thought of how a suspension is a sum of parts all working in concert as a whole. Why take the compliance out of one of the best FWD rear suspensions on the market? Makes no sense to me.

I also have about 20 years of autocross background (Multiple Regional championships--was also the fastest Street Tire Focus at fj Jet-Fest I in 2005--4th overall) and two years of SCCA wheel-to-wheel roadrace experience (with 2 in-class race wins) on my resume... So with all due respect, no, I am not just blowing hot air.
I have not seen pictures or hear of any SVT LCA's being broken, I have seen non SVT LCA's broken - so please post a link to the SVT LCA's.
I dont' see it in your post, but did you say whether you have driven a car with a 28.6 rear bar and a H&R 24 front bar?
My background with sway bars is having driven Focus' with a progress 22mm rear bar, a H&R 24mm rear bar, one with an eibach 25mm rear bar and then a car with the steeda 28.6. For my driving style the 28.6mm rear bar felt the best.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Auto-X-ZTS View Post
Plug N Play. Maybe a bit more grease...but the ZX3 and the SVT are the same. All Focus sways interchange on all Foci--the only catch is if the RSB needs an adaptor kit (Steeda) or has OE bracket mounts. Its all pretty simple. Cars with OE RSBs are 21mm, except the SVT, Street Edition and S2--those are 22mm. If the car has an OE RSB, the FSB is 21mm, except the Street Edition Wagon--that is 22mm. If the car same sans RSB, the FSB is 18mm. But all sways interchange.
The SVT sway bars are 21mm, the non SVT / non special edition models are all 20mm front and rear with exception to the spi models which I believe had a 18mm front bar.
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