removal of crankshaft pulley bolt?

[sailor]

^^^ Grinding until you see round circle is necessary to remove ALL of the bolt head...

If you still see "hex" in the grinding area some head remains...

(No more side notes on aircraft, gets too confusing for ya - (Grumpy knows his t on that...)

As to worries about removing the stub, once tension is off removal is generally MUCH easier - if locktite was used, a little heat to melt it could be applied - being careful of rubber nearby of course...

[the_doc735]

Originally Posted by Grumpy

I'm now not sure what you've done, but you have to lop off the head of the bolt. In other words, all you should have left is the end of the shank diameter of the bolt. If you grind it flush with the washer (photos of a 1.6 on a UK website clearly show the loose washer under the head of a removed pulley bolt) and reasonably flat it might help if you have to use a puller. The washer should be protecting the pulley during all this grinding. You won't see the keyway (groove) until the washer is off.

which UK website is that please? I'll take a look!

Obviously I can't see the back of the washer yet, but the front is NOT manufactured 'FLAT' - IT IS A DOME SHAPE!! i.e. a slight curve, highest point in the centre where the bolt head was previously situated!

cheers!

[Grumpy]

I guess it's a "Belleville style" washer, designed to help prevent the bolt from backing off.......the head of the bolt must be gone then. You must be able to now see the actual bolt shank diameter. It's gotta be corrosion holding the washer on. Just give it a wack, or podger it off. I'm heading out for a few hours on a family junket.........but soak the area with a good penetrating fluid for a while if the pulley doesn't come off.......you may have to use a centre bolt/rod adaptor for that puller that you mentioned, if you need it. You should have enough of a stub of the bolt to grab and work that bolt (use lots of penetrating fluid and take your time) back and forth to loosen and remove it. Let's see what happens. EDIT.......I couldn't find the website with the photo......just in case......you could also be describing an integral washer style bolt head, where after grinding the bolt head hex off and with the fact that you apparently can't see an actual outer dia. edge/lip of a "separate" washer.......I'm wondering. The separate washer will be about 2" in outside diameter and about a 1/16" thick.

[the_doc735]

Originally Posted by sailor

^^^ Grinding until you see round circle is necessary to remove ALL of the bolt head...

If you still see "hex" in the grinding area some head remains...

(No more side notes on aircraft, gets too confusing for ya - (Grumpy knows his t on that...)

As to worries about removing the stub, once tension is off removal is generally MUCH easier - if locktite was used, a little heat to melt it could be applied - being careful of rubber nearby of course...

No! ~ I mean the stub end has taken the shape of the hex head because I dremeled along the back of each of the hexs' 6 flat sides. The head is 8mm thick - I don't think there can be any head left on the front of the crank? ~ but it may well have 'mushroomed' with the heat generated by the dremel cutting? What would have been the original depth of the bolt head 8mm? 9mm? 10mm? 12mm?

frontsidebackback outlined

[the_doc735]

Originally Posted by Grumpy

I guess it's a "Belleville style" washer, designed to help prevent the bolt from backing off.......the head of the bolt must be gone then. You must be able to now see the actual bolt shank diameter. It's gotta be corrosion holding the washer on. Just give it a wack, or podger it off. I'm heading out for a few hours on a family junket.........but soak the area with a good penetrating fluid for a while if the pulley doesn't come off.......you may have to use a centre bolt/rod adaptor for that puller that you mentioned, if you need it. You should have enough of a stub of the bolt to grab and work that bolt (use lots of penetrating fluid and take your time) back and forth to loosen and remove it. Let's see what happens. EDIT.......I couldn't find the website with the photo......just in case......you could also be describing an integral washer style bolt head, where after grinding the bolt head hex off and with the fact that you apparently can't see an actual outer dia. edge/lip of a "separate" washer.......I'm wondering. The separate washer will be about 2" in outside diameter and about a 1/16" thick.

I thought it was similar to this: http://www.bellevillesprings.com/hea...g-washers.html but now it turns out that the bolt and washer are all in "one piece"!! ~ 'an integral washer style bolt head'. This explains why grooving the head had no effect, it also explains why the 3 leg puller didn't work i.e. as the washer/bolt is all in one piece the puller was obviously pushing against itself! SEE PHOTOS. I had to stop slightly early due to darkness caused by large black storm clouds and then heavy rain; however I plan to continue tomorrow if the weather is fine and dry?

This all-in-one bolt/washer must loosely resemble a mushroom then?





Cheers!

A "little birdie" has informed me that the torque specification for the crankshaft flange bolts is 183-Nm or 135-Lb/Ft ?

[Grumpy]

Yup, it wasn't coming off, puller or not. Jeez, they don't make things easy with all the variants.......but the area that you indicate as "crankshaft spindle" is a portion of the actual end face of the crankshaft with the thread/thread lead in visible? So the black/dark area is the portion of the bolt head/integral washer still to be ground off......correct? It's confusing to me because you have that outer red ring, and labelled it as "Integral bolt/washer", or did you simply mean that that is the area that was "covered" by the original bolt head/integral washer. If that is the exposed area of the face of the crankshaft how much below the front face of the pulley is it? Anyway......obviously, you have to carefully remove (try not to grind into the crankshaft) the remaining area of the head/washer that I think I can see remaining there. Actually you've done a helluva job just to get that much of the damn bolt ground off. If that is the end of the crank and exposed threads and going by the look of it.......I think you'll be able to extract the bolt shank just fine.

[the_doc735]

Originally Posted by Grumpy

Yup, it wasn't coming off, puller or not. Jeez, they don't make things easy with all the variants.......but the area that you indicate as "crankshaft spindle" is a portion of the actual end face of the crankshaft with the thread/thread lead in visible? So the black/dark area is the portion of the bolt head/integral washer still to be ground off......correct? It's confusing to me because you have that outer red ring, and labelled it as "Integral bolt/washer", or did you simply mean that that is the area that was "covered" by the original bolt head/integral washer. If that is the exposed area of the face of the crankshaft how much below the front face of the pulley is it? Anyway......obviously, you have to carefully remove (try not to grind into the crankshaft) the remaining area of the head/washer that I think I can see remaining there. Actually you've done a helluva job just to get that much of the damn bolt ground off. If that is the end of the crank and exposed threads and going by the look of it.......I think you'll be able to extract the bolt shank just fine.

"If that is the exposed area of the face of the crankshaft how much below the front face of the pulley is it?" ~ the pulley has been pushed almost fully 'home'! It only protrudes about 1mm - 1.5mm. I've tried to make the rest of your questions clearer with 4 more 'captioned' photo's ~ hope they help?

cheers!

[Grumpy]

Rodger........the front face of the pulley (the bolt/washer seating surface) has to be/should be "proud" (be past the end of the crank). I was just interested. Once you grind the remaining bolt off why don't you just soak the area with penetrating oil, and take an overnight break. Hope the pulley(s) come off easily without having to have you adapt that puller. If required, have you got a good, small (3/8" or something close), sharp cold chisel or something similar? If there is not enough of the bolt to grab onto, then a sharp tool that will "dig" into or "catch" the end of the bolt so that you can work/rotate the bolt out, may be useful.......if you get my drift. Does the large pulley have elastomer (rubber) damper material that I think I see in your enlarged photos?

[the_doc735]

Originally Posted by Grumpy

Rodger........the front face of the pulley (the bolt/washer seating surface) has to be/should be "proud" (be past the end of the crank). I was just interested.

It is/was proud by about 1.5mm.

Originally Posted by Grumpy

Once you grind the remaining bolt off why don't you just soak the area with penetrating oil, and take an overnight break.

Good idea matey! ~ My own bad idea was to go and get a hole saw for my electric drill and drill a 22mm hole right out the centre, but it wouldn't 'bite' so the bolt must be made of even stronger stuff? Next I tried to drill a circle of small 3mm holes around the end of the bolt shaft with a titanium bit but again it wouldn't even bite, so the bolt metal must be super super toughened? I could not use the heavy duty grinder because the grinding disc diameter is larger then that of the smaller outside pulley [i.e. it wouldn't fit inside to reach the washer surface].

So it was back to the tiny carbide dremel cutting wheel again in order to continue were I left off yesterday. Takes a long time and a lot of patience!! People walking past muttered that I was still 'messing' with that bloody car! Just as the dremel was about to break through the final section it went "BANG!". Changed the fuse and bushes but the thing is dead, I think the strain of the job killed it? Certainly the longest and most strained job my dremel has ever done! ~ R.I.P.

So, I finish it with the good old club hammer and cold chisel. The corrosion WAS bonding the washer to the pulley! But a couple of tiny blows with the club hammer and off it fell.

Originally Posted by Grumpy

Hope the pulley(s) come off easily without having to have you adapt that puller.

Now the washer has gone, the centre hole is a lot bigger, so there was no need to adapt the puller. I put it on and started turning the centre screw of the puller by hand, I was ready to attach the socket and 'half inch drive' wrench but I didn't even need it as I was able to pull the pulleys off just by tightening the puller by HAND!

Originally Posted by Grumpy

If required, have you got a good, small (3/8" or something close), sharp cold chisel or something similar? If there is not enough of the bolt to grab onto, then a sharp tool that will "dig" into or "catch" the end of the bolt so that you can work/rotate the bolt out, may be useful.......if you get my drift.

Yes! ~ I deliberately left a small part of the washer attached to the bolt shaft to act as a lug [lever] SEE PHOTO. I placed the cold chisel against the lug and gave two tiny taps with the club hammer to spin it CCW then I was able to grip it with my finger tips and unscrew it without any resistance at all. I didn't even need to make a groove in it 'like a screw head'!!

Originally Posted by Grumpy

Does the large pulley have elastomer (rubber) damper material that I think I see in your enlarged photos?

"YES!".













...the timing sprocket isn't 'off centre'!! [it's just the camera angle].

So, the next question is: how to get the bent 'locking' pin out of the side of the block?

Cheers!

[Grumpy]

Slide the belt drive sprocket off the crankshaft.......then how about a photo. No key/keyway, correct? In my looking at some UK websites there was reference to some Zetecs including some 1.6s that did not have a keyed sprocket or pulley, and crankshaft......this is like our Duratec engines over here. The pulley and sprocket stack clampup force (probably partly explains the high bolt breakaway/loosening torque) is what maintains the correct "timing" position of the belt sprocket. Hoping that yours was keyed......this is a complication on reassembly/timing the cams, later. The pin problem.......can you rotate it at least one rotation? If you can (see if rotating/moving the crankshaft helps......this could also give you an idea on how badly bent it is), you could try lubing the pin/block threads liberally with oil and see if you can slowly work the pin out. Otherwise, it's oil pan removal.