Track Day Setup Advice - Page 3 - Ford Focus Forum, Ford Focus ST Forum, Ford Focus RS Forum
Ford Focus Forum
HomeContact UsAbout UsGalleryDiscussion ForumsMarketplace


Go Back   Ford Focus Forum, Ford Focus ST Forum, Ford Focus RS Forum > Ford Focus Racing Discussions > Road Racing & Rally

Road Racing & Rally The place to discuss information about road/rally racing stats, tips and events. Track sanctioned events only.

Search This Forum | Image Search | Advanced Search    
Ford Focus Tire & Wheels FocusFanatics Merchandise

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-06-2010, 11:45 AM   #21
Geezer
Focus Fanatic
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Fan#: 1427
Location: Westminster, CO
What I Drive: 99 miata, 05Mazda6, 09GTI, 12Imprez

Posts: 8,023
FF Reputation: 141 Geezer Excellent Standing Member Geezer Excellent Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
Please accept this as "constructive" criticism. I think its very hard putting together a dual purpose track car and daily driver. You have to accept that it will be a compromise at best.

For example, brakes that work well on the track are rarely very good for the street. Hawk HP's are decent for lapping (I would want something much better for all out racing)but their initial bite on a cool morning on the way to work can be flat out scary in a panic stop. Trying to find a performance brake with a really wide temperature operating range (very low/very high) would be the ideal, but admittedly is hard to come by although not impossible and will be expensive when you do find them.

Regarding suspension, we all know that stiffer springs are the key to a good track car. Its not unusual to see 500 to 700 lb/in springs and sometimes more on a serious track based car. You also need some serious shocks to dampen them like Penske's, Koni race series, etc. Naturally these spring rates and shocks would be unacceptable for a DD. So once again a compromise is necessary. The downside to the FRPP springs as I see it is that no one knows the spring rates, or if they do, it's not shared with us mortals. If you're into Spec Focus racing then that's fine as it's more or less an equal playing field. In reality, I bet they are too soft. For a dual purpose car, Koni Sports and H&R race springs may be a better compromise. The adjustable shock in this case can go a long ways in improving the dual purpose being sought.

As for tires.......as dumb as it sounds, it makes far more economic sense to have a set for the street and another set for the track. Full tread depth street tires will eventually rip themselves to pieces (chunk) on the track. That makes the tire unusable for the street and track. A "shaved" tire will actually last much longer on a track, but then again, it makes a lousy alternative for the street. I believe a set of used race tires is actually better than using a set of really expensive full depth street tires from both an economic and performance standpoint. In summary, there really isn't any cheap way of having a "good" track "and" street car. If it were me, I'd allocate my budget on tires first, brakes second, and suspension third.
Geezer is offline  
    Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 04-07-2010, 03:40 PM   #22
MattyM3CSL
Focus Enthusiast
 
MattyM3CSL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Fan#: 63091
Location: Owings Mills, MD
What I Drive: 14' Silver ST, 02 Sonic Blue SVT

Posts: 195
Points 1,018, Level 17
Points: 1,018, Level: 17 Points: 1,018, Level: 17 Points: 1,018, Level: 17
Level Up 18% Completed
Level up: 18% Level up: 18% Level up: 18%
Forum Activity 0%
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
FF Reputation: 2 MattyM3CSL Good Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (4)
Completely agree with what you said Geezer. Im by no means trying to build a race car. I just want a nice streetable setup that will perform well at HPDE’s.

I ended up going with the latest “dynamic” FRPP kit. I had to cancel the Konis. The Koni kit was my first choice, but unfortunately they were on back order and it was uncertain for how long.

I will also keep in mind what you said about the HP+ and there intail bite when cold. I was hoping they would be ok a low (street) temps.
MattyM3CSL is offline  
    Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-08-2010, 10:29 PM   #23
apex214
Focus Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Fan#: 37876
Location: Fairfield, CT
What I Drive: 2003 Focus SVT, silver

Posts: 337
FF Reputation: 43 apex214 Great Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
I agree with geezer that a combo track and street car can be a compromise. Keep in mind the type of track use intended though. A RACE car that's street driven just isn't likely to make any sense these days. When I started getting involved with SCCA it was with friends running Improved Touring and Showroom Stock classes back in the late '80s/early '90s, when you could actually be regionally competitive with a car you drove to the track..stuffed full of race tires and tools of course!

I do not agree with many of the remarks regarding suspension. Stiffer is not always better, period. There's no such rule. (The same applies to ride height: lower does not automatically equal an improvement in handling. A particular car's suspension geometry has it's quirks, strengths, weaknesses etc). Without any experience with a particular spring/shock set-up, claiming it's "too soft" is just empty commentary. Adjustable shocks are not practical for most people, even including amateur "racers" (as opposed to track-day folks), since (aside from the extra cost of the good multi-adjustable ones like Penske) it takes quite a bit of experience, knowledge and track time to properly evaluate/test setting combinations to optimize a spring/shock combo for a given car on a given track. The FRPP Spec Focus suspension IS streetable, but it depends on the quality of the streets in your neighborhood. Around here the pothole population is like never before this past winter, and I am about to replace a floppy front strut that suffered a few hard smacks.

Brake component choice again depends on intended use. I am not a racer, my car gets me to work every day, and when it's on track for HPDE or time trial use I am conservative with the brakes, not hammering them at 10/10ths every single lap. Quality brake fluid (Ate) and lots of (stock SVT) pad material works for me so far.

Tires, tires, tires...I have never run my street tires on track. Geezer is dead on target with the remarks about the total destruction that full tread tires can suffer. If your track day happens to be wet, maybe use full tread to get some experience pushing under such conditions. I have always had a set of track wheels/tires, sometimes true R-compound stickies, and currently Dunlop Direzza "relatively sticky street" tires. I went the cheaper route with the Dunlops this time, but can not complain really. For me, lap times are less important than consistency from the tire grip AND the driver.

Bottom line appears to be: What are your goals and intended/expected use of your car?

I live with compromise every 20 mile round trip commute, waiting for those all too few days on track
apex214 is offline  
    Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-10-2010, 02:11 AM   #24
mozerman
Focus Jr. Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Fan#: 63529
Location: Rochester MI/ MSU, United States
What I Drive: 1988 jetta

Posts: 38
Points 145, Level 2
Points: 145, Level: 2 Points: 145, Level: 2 Points: 145, Level: 2
Level Up 90% Completed
Level up: 90% Level up: 90% Level up: 90%
Forum Activity 1%
Activity: 1% Activity: 1% Activity: 1%
FF Reputation: 1 mozerman Good Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
I would do as Geezer suggests and get a set of track tires and a set of track pads. Switch them out at the track. That way you can have junk auto zone pads for street and bada$$ race pads for the track. I gotten a coupe good deals on used tires. the best was free rims and free spec miata tires. I would find a good spring rate and get decent dampers that are properly damped to that spring rate. Don't worry about adjustable dampers. I have a VW jetta that I used to have as a daily racer. It had decent street pads with huge brake rotors. only glazed the brakes twice out of 12 track days. Just keep the car reliable. Spend more money on track days than performance parts. I spent $1500 on the car and $1800 on trackdays so far.
mozerman is offline  
    Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-10-2010, 09:03 AM   #25
Schroeder02
Moderator
 
Schroeder02's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Fan#: 53191
Location: Cockeysville, MD
What I Drive: 2013 Red ST & 2009 Focus Race Car

Posts: 2,355
Points 5,488, Level 47
Points: 5,488, Level: 47 Points: 5,488, Level: 47 Points: 5,488, Level: 47
Level Up 69% Completed
Level up: 69% Level up: 69% Level up: 69%
Forum Activity 2%
Activity: 2% Activity: 2% Activity: 2%
FF Reputation: 62 Schroeder02 Excellent Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (7)
I daily drove my car with Carbotech AX6 pads for several year, the pads saw both track and street time. The AX6 seemed like a very good brake pad for a novice to Intermediate driver, but you do have to understand they squeal and dust like mad. I guess I’m lazy but I never liked changing pads at that track, but now that my car is a weekend driver and I have moved up to the higher levels I use a more aggressive pad (Xp8’s and next xp10’s) I agree you wouldn’t want to street drive daily not because they don’t work (because I have driven them in the winter) but they where extremely fast and at 175 a pair you don’t really want to be chancing them every 6 months.

I do think you can have a summer/track tire, I also run the Dunlops I left them on my car from early spring to late fall and the worked very well I never had any issue of chunking from running them on the track, they just wore much faster doing both.

Maybe the title of the thread is a little miss leading it’s really HPD Car set up, and I think you can have a car set up very nice for double duty but like geezer said your building a compromise when comparing it to a race car. But you can build a very streetable HPD car.

Your on the right track with yours I had a friend that rand the very suspension your installing on your car he was able to win the EMRA time trial series one year. He was very very fast driver and held a race license, and felt the dynamic Kid was a good way to go on a street car
__________________
My rides a 2002 SVT track car, & Boosted 2007 ST with the SAP.
The helmet has a special meaning for many drivers. How important is it to you? - It protects my head.

Do you have any special rituals when the helmet is concerned like many have? - I wipe it so that I can see better.
Schroeder02 is offline  
    Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-16-2010, 12:47 PM   #26
BadIdea
Focus Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Fan#: 6470
Location: Cleveland
What I Drive: 02 Silver SVT 08 Tundra CrewMax

Posts: 367
FF Reputation: 1 BadIdea Good Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
Quote:
For example, brakes that work well on the track are rarely very good for the street. Hawk HP's are decent for lapping (I would want something much better for all out racing)but their initial bite on a cool morning on the way to work can be flat out scary in a panic stop. Trying to find a performance brake with a really wide temperature operating range (very low/very high) would be the ideal, but admittedly is hard to come by although not impossible and will be expensive when you do find them.
That is your experience with Hawk. I have used carbotech xp10's in the winter and they work just fine. If it's a daily driver I could see putting OEM pads on if the car won't see the track for 5 months but otherwise just leave the carbotech's on. Also if step up to castrol srf you only need to bleed the brakes once or twice a year.
__________________
'02 SVT Spec Focus
'08 Tundra CrewMax
BadIdea is offline  
    Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-16-2010, 01:45 PM   #27
Geezer
Focus Fanatic
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Fan#: 1427
Location: Westminster, CO
What I Drive: 99 miata, 05Mazda6, 09GTI, 12Imprez

Posts: 8,023
FF Reputation: 141 Geezer Excellent Standing Member Geezer Excellent Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
Castrol SRF is good stuff....it better be for 75.00 a liter!!!!! It really doesn't make much sense for a dual purpose car unless you're Richie Rich and then its quite likely overkill as well. There's plenty of high quality brake fluids available for a heck of a lot less money. Castrol SRF attracts moisture (a brake fluids primary contaminant) at the same rate as just about any other fluid. Racers love and use it for its astronomically high boiling temps and stability......when they can afford it.
Geezer is offline  
    Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-16-2010, 08:36 PM   #28
Schroeder02
Moderator
 
Schroeder02's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Fan#: 53191
Location: Cockeysville, MD
What I Drive: 2013 Red ST & 2009 Focus Race Car

Posts: 2,355
Points 5,488, Level 47
Points: 5,488, Level: 47 Points: 5,488, Level: 47 Points: 5,488, Level: 47
Level Up 69% Completed
Level up: 69% Level up: 69% Level up: 69%
Forum Activity 2%
Activity: 2% Activity: 2% Activity: 2%
FF Reputation: 62 Schroeder02 Excellent Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (7)
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadIdea View Post
That is your experience with Hawk. I have used carbotech xp10's in the winter and they work just fine. If it's a daily driver I could see putting OEM pads on if the car won't see the track for 5 months but otherwise just leave the carbotech's on. Also if step up to castrol srf you only need to bleed the brakes once or twice a year.
Just put SRF in mine last night

How many days did you get out of your XP10, I had 8 anf got maybe 8 to 10 days and a few thousend road miles
__________________
My rides a 2002 SVT track car, & Boosted 2007 ST with the SAP.
The helmet has a special meaning for many drivers. How important is it to you? - It protects my head.

Do you have any special rituals when the helmet is concerned like many have? - I wipe it so that I can see better.
Schroeder02 is offline  
    Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-20-2010, 07:13 PM   #29
BadIdea
Focus Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Fan#: 6470
Location: Cleveland
What I Drive: 02 Silver SVT 08 Tundra CrewMax

Posts: 367
FF Reputation: 1 BadIdea Good Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schroeder02 View Post
Just put SRF in mine last night

How many days did you get out of your XP10, I had 8 anf got maybe 8 to 10 days and a few thousend road miles
I'd Expect the same with 10's. I lost a lot of track time last year so my pads are still from '08. Rear wheel bearing, coolant leak, bad pcv valve, and finally the orp at daytona.

What separates srf from the others is wet boiling point.


Posted via FF Mobile
BadIdea is offline  
    Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply

Bookmarks & Social Networks

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Ford Focus Forum, Ford Focus ST Forum, Ford Focus RS Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:00 AM.


Copyright 2002-2014 FocusFanatics.com. All Rights Reserved : Privacy Policy : Advertise Information

Focus Fanatics Ford Focus Forum offers many fun ways for you to engage with other Ford Focus Owners from across the world. Whether it be about the aftermarket performance modifications, technical how-to's, European tuned suspension or awesome fuel economy similar to the Audi S3, Ford Fusion and Acura TLX. You can find all Ford Focus and Focus ST related information here. Join our Ford Focus discussion forums and chat with local Focus enthusiasts in your area. Challenger Hellcat - Charger Hellcat