New USA bound diesels? - Ford Focus Forum, Ford Focus ST Forum
Ford Focus Forum
HomeContact UsAbout UsGalleryDiscussion ForumsMarketplace


Go Back   Ford Focus Forum, Ford Focus ST Forum > Ford Focus Discussions > Ford Focus & General Car Chat

Ford Focus & General Car Chat Discussion Forum relating to nonspecific Ford Focus models, car purchasing, auto industry news and any car talk.

Search This Forum | Image Search | Advanced Search    
Ford Focus Tire & Wheels FocusFanatics Merchandise

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-21-2013, 05:40 AM   #1
whynotthinkwhynot
Captain TMI
 
whynotthinkwhynot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Fan#: 18416
Location: the armpit of TN, Memphis, TN
What I Drive: 05 ZXW; 02 Windstar; 13 C-Max SEL

Posts: 20,128
FF Reputation: 270 whynotthinkwhynot Outstanding Standing Member whynotthinkwhynot Outstanding Standing Member whynotthinkwhynot Outstanding Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (1)
New USA bound diesels?

Clean Diesel power for half-ton Pick-ups

I'll have to see it to believe it. The Mercedes is already on sale- that's an amazing engine with close to 400 ft-lb of torque and 200 hp from a 4 cyl. Mazda is finally bringing the SkyActivD to the USA, in the 6, which baffles me. I'd have expected it in the little SUV first.

Ford? Nah..nothing more than we already expected. The full size Transit van will be getting a 5 cyl turbo diesel that powers Rangers overseas. Please, hold your enthusiasm down. We will not be getting any USA made hyper fuel economy diesel cars with a blue oval on them. You'll get that 3 cyl gas turbo in the Fiesta instead- and you will like it. Please, ignore the diesel Cobalts across the street.

Some encouraging news- someone has finally realized that diesels are really good for hybrid use. Even though Ford, GM, and Chrysler were all paid millions of taxpayer money in the late 90's for the PNGV project that produced 72 mpg electric diesel hybrids- no, it's not any of them. It's VW.

Just keep waiting Ford. Wait until everyone else has done it, then you'll know it's safe.


__________________
Be eclectic.
---The Complete How-To Archive--

Moderating everything now, let me know if I can help.

Quote:
Originally Posted by the user formerly known as ZX3_Chick View Post
You're special aren't you.
whynotthinkwhynot is offline  
    Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2013, 06:53 AM   #2
kam327
-----<M>-----
 
kam327's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Fan#: 94700
Location: Tampa, FL
What I Drive: '14 Ruby Ti w/ Handling Pkg

Posts: 2,374
FF Reputation: 11 kam327 Great Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
Now that Chevy has proven that a diesel will be no more frugal, slower, and cost a hell of a lot more than today's gasoline engine, I bet the fervor for diesels wanes a bit in the coming years.

I wonder if the Jetta TDI would've been so popular if they had offered a truly competitive gasoline powertrain in that car too.
kam327 is online now  
    Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2013, 06:05 AM   #3
n00btard
Focus Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Fan#: 101317
Location: DFW, TX
What I Drive: 2013 VW Golf 2.5 3 door

Posts: 129
FF Reputation: 1 n00btard Good Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
Quote:
Originally Posted by kam327 View Post
Now that Chevy has proven that a diesel will be no more frugal, slower, and cost a hell of a lot more than today's gasoline engine, I bet the fervor for diesels wanes a bit in the coming years.

I wonder if the Jetta TDI would've been so popular if they had offered a truly competitive gasoline powertrain in that car too.
Dude, seriously?

#1 Gassers won't ever make the low end torque compression makes. It's just never going to happen. Never. The only motors with more low end torque are electric. Torque is better for towing and general hauling of ass in hill country --and it's just better for camping period.

#2 Diesel isn't slow. My wife is buying a TDI Cup Jetta for the very reason that its faster than a 2.5L Autobahn and a 2.0T GLI --all the while getting better milage. I'd own a GTD if they sold it here --but they don't. The VW .:R line is even going compression according to an interview with their director --and I'll be on that like white on rice if it comes out here.

#3 You left out how long a compression motor lasts. 500K miles is expected out of most Ford Diesel trucks and VW TDIs.
n00btard is offline  
    Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2013, 07:05 AM   #4
kam327
-----<M>-----
 
kam327's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Fan#: 94700
Location: Tampa, FL
What I Drive: '14 Ruby Ti w/ Handling Pkg

Posts: 2,374
FF Reputation: 11 kam327 Great Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
Quote:
Originally Posted by n00btard View Post
Dude, seriously?

#1 Gassers won't ever make the low end torque compression makes. It's just never going to happen. Never. The only motors with more low end torque are electric. Torque is better for towing and general hauling of ass in hill country --and it's just better for camping period.

#2 Diesel isn't slow. My wife is buying a TDI Cup Jetta for the very reason that its faster than a 2.5L Autobahn and a 2.0T GLI --all the while getting better milage. I'd own a GTD if they sold it here --but they don't. The VW .:R line is even going compression according to an interview with their director --and I'll be on that like white on rice if it comes out here.

#3 You left out how long a compression motor lasts. 500K miles is expected out of most Ford Diesel trucks and VW TDIs.
Chevy says the 0-60 time of the diesel is 8.6 seconds. Zerotosixtytimes.com says the Cruze Eco manual does it in 7.9 seconds. Slower.

http://www.zeroto60times.com/Chevrol...mph-Times.html

Would you REALLY keep a Cruze for 500k miles?
kam327 is online now  
    Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2013, 09:31 AM   #5
n00btard
Focus Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Fan#: 101317
Location: DFW, TX
What I Drive: 2013 VW Golf 2.5 3 door

Posts: 129
FF Reputation: 1 n00btard Good Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
Quote:
Originally Posted by kam327 View Post
Chevy says the 0-60 time of the diesel is 8.6 seconds. Zerotosixtytimes.com says the Cruze Eco manual does it in 7.9 seconds. Slower.

http://www.zeroto60times.com/Chevrol...mph-Times.html

Would you REALLY keep a Cruze for 500k miles?
I'd never buy a Chevy in the first place. They're so damn bad that even socialism couldn't save them. Ford makes the only "domestics" worth even considering.
n00btard is offline  
    Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2013, 09:39 AM   #6
kam327
-----<M>-----
 
kam327's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Fan#: 94700
Location: Tampa, FL
What I Drive: '14 Ruby Ti w/ Handling Pkg

Posts: 2,374
FF Reputation: 11 kam327 Great Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
Quote:
Originally Posted by n00btard View Post
I'd never buy a Chevy in the first place. They're so damn bad that even socialism couldn't save them. Ford makes the only "domestics" worth even considering.
Ahhh, finally something we agree on!

My brother is a Chevy fanboy, I'm a Ford one. It's been easy for me to pick on him lately given the hideous new Silverado (that's already widely panned even before going on sale), the highly uncompetitive new Malibu that is going to have an emergency refresh a la the Civic, the new Corvette's interior that is only slightly better than the outgoing '90s era version... The list goes on.
kam327 is online now  
    Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2013, 07:18 AM   #7
kam327
-----<M>-----
 
kam327's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Fan#: 94700
Location: Tampa, FL
What I Drive: '14 Ruby Ti w/ Handling Pkg

Posts: 2,374
FF Reputation: 11 kam327 Great Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
Quote:
Originally Posted by n00btard View Post
#2 Diesel isn't slow. My wife is buying a TDI Cup Jetta for the very reason that its faster than a 2.5L Autobahn and a 2.0T GLI --all the while getting better milage. I'd own a GTD if they sold it here --but they don't. The VW .:R line is even going compression according to an interview with their director --and I'll be on that like white on rice if it comes out here.
That's not what the figures quoted on zeroto60times.com show:

2011 Volkswagen Jetta SEL 0-60 mph 8.2 Quarter Mile 16.0
2011 Volkswagen Jetta TDI 0-60 mph 8.7 Quarter Mile 16.4
2011 Volkswagen Jetta GLI 0-60 mph 6.2

TDI is slowest.



2009 Volkswagen Jetta SportWagen 2.5L SE (Manual) 0-60 mph 8.3
2009 Volkswagen Jetta TDI DSG 0-60 mph 8.3 Quarter Mile 16.2

Tied with the gasser.



2005 Volkswagen Jetta 2.5 (Auto) 0-60 mph 9.3 Quarter Mile 16.7
2006 Volkswagen Jetta TDI 0-60 mph 10.2 Quarter Mile 17.4
2006 Volkswagen Jetta GLI 0-60 mph 6.3 Quarter mile 14.9

TDI is slowest.
kam327 is online now  
    Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2013, 09:27 AM   #8
n00btard
Focus Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Fan#: 101317
Location: DFW, TX
What I Drive: 2013 VW Golf 2.5 3 door

Posts: 129
FF Reputation: 1 n00btard Good Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
Quote:
Originally Posted by kam327 View Post
That's not what the figures quoted on zeroto60times.com show:

2011 Volkswagen Jetta SEL 0-60 mph 8.2 Quarter Mile 16.0
2011 Volkswagen Jetta TDI 0-60 mph 8.7 Quarter Mile 16.4
2011 Volkswagen Jetta GLI 0-60 mph 6.2

TDI is slowest.



2009 Volkswagen Jetta SportWagen 2.5L SE (Manual) 0-60 mph 8.3
2009 Volkswagen Jetta TDI DSG 0-60 mph 8.3 Quarter Mile 16.2

Tied with the gasser.



2005 Volkswagen Jetta 2.5 (Auto) 0-60 mph 9.3 Quarter Mile 16.7
2006 Volkswagen Jetta TDI 0-60 mph 10.2 Quarter Mile 17.4
2006 Volkswagen Jetta GLI 0-60 mph 6.3 Quarter mile 14.9

TDI is slowest.
The TDI Cup Jetta is 170 BHP and has a smaller final drive. The TDI Bluemotion is 140 BHP and has a larger final drive. A TDI Cup Jetta is essentially a GTD w/ a better snail.
n00btard is offline  
    Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2013, 09:36 AM   #9
kam327
-----<M>-----
 
kam327's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Fan#: 94700
Location: Tampa, FL
What I Drive: '14 Ruby Ti w/ Handling Pkg

Posts: 2,374
FF Reputation: 11 kam327 Great Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
Quote:
Originally Posted by n00btard View Post
The TDI Cup Jetta is 170 BHP and has a smaller final drive. The TDI Bluemotion is 140 BHP and has a larger final drive. A TDI Cup Jetta is essentially a GTD w/ a better snail.
Ok, so I guess you're saying you have to shell out another couple grand for a special edition diesel in order for it to be more closely competitive with a gas version? In 2010 the price premium for the TDI Cup over the standard TDI was $2,160. And Car and Driver found it was still slower than the standard TDI, saying:
Equipped with the six-speed manual, our test car achieved 60 mph in 8.8 seconds and covered the quarter-mile in 16.8 seconds at 83 mph. We should note that these numbers are substantially slower than those of our long-term Jetta TDI, which reached 60 in 8.1 seconds and cleared the quarter in 16.4 at 84 mph. That car had the DSG, but we didnít think our shifting was that slow.
kam327 is online now  
    Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2013, 07:47 PM   #10
Lscman
Focus Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Fan#: 95211
Location: northeast, PA
What I Drive: 2007 ZX3

Posts: 305
FF Reputation: 9 Lscman Good Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (1)
Quote:
Originally Posted by n00btard View Post
Dude, seriously?

#1 Gassers won't ever make the low end torque compression makes. It's just never going to happen. Never. The only motors with more low end torque are electric. Torque is better for towing and general hauling of ass in hill country --and it's just better for camping period.

#2 Diesel isn't slow. My wife is buying a TDI Cup Jetta for the very reason that its faster than a 2.5L Autobahn and a 2.0T GLI --all the while getting better milage. I'd own a GTD if they sold it here --but they don't. The VW .:R line is even going compression according to an interview with their director --and I'll be on that like white on rice if it comes out here.

#3 You left out how long a compression motor lasts. 500K miles is expected out of most Ford Diesel trucks and VW TDIs.
Here's my thoughts about 1 thru 3:

#1 It doesn't matter if a diesel engine produces 100x the torque at lower engine speeds. A transmission multiplies torque, so the value measured at the crankshaft is meaningless. Just downshift...modern transmissions can do that wonderfully. The powerband argument might work for a 80yo farm tractor or single speed moped but my car has more than one gear. Horsepower is what propels a vehicle, not torque. This is why a Porsche is faster than a Kubota.

#2 Most diesels are slower because they are designed for economical pedestrian use. Flagship performance cars sold throughout the world have gas engines because they perform better and have superior NVH characteristcs. Diesels cost more and owners seldom recoup costs thru fuel cost savings. For example, the Chevy Cruze diesel option for the typical owner shows a break even point sometime after 100+ yrs from a cost per mile standpoint. Can you keep it on the road that long?

#3 I have never experienced a modern gasoline motor wear out on synthetic oil. Gas engines far outlast the chassis, body and transmission. My cars seeing 15K to 20K mi per yr rust out in Pennsylvania around 250K to 300K mi but the engines are still running like NEW at that point (showing same perfomance & economy as new). I've swapped these high mile engines into other vehicles. Engines that outlast the vehicle are generally a waste.
Lscman is offline  
    Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks & Social Networks
-->
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:44 PM.


Copyright 2002-2014 FocusFanatics.com. All Rights Reserved : Terms of Use : Privacy Policy : Advertise Information

Focus Fanatics Ford Focus Forum offers many fun ways for you to engage with other Ford Focus Owners from across the world. Whether it be about the aftermarket performance modifications, technical how-to's, European tuned suspension or awesome fuel economy similar to the Acura TLX or Fiesta ST. You can find all Ford Focus and Focus ST related information here. Join our Ford Focus discussion forums and chat with local Focus enthusiasts in your area.