NeoGen air pressure - Ford Focus Forum, Ford Focus ST Forum, Ford Focus RS Forum
Ford Focus Forum
HomeContact UsAbout UsGalleryDiscussion ForumsMarketplace


Go Back   Ford Focus Forum, Ford Focus ST Forum, Ford Focus RS Forum > Ford Focus Racing Discussions > Autocross Racing

Autocross Racing The place to discuss information about autocross stats, tips and events. Track sanctioned events only.

Search This Forum | Image Search | Advanced Search    
Ford Focus Tire & Wheels FocusFanatics Merchandise

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-04-2008, 09:30 PM   #1
Blurvfocus
Focus Fanatic
 
Blurvfocus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Fan#: 15299
Location: Temple, PA
What I Drive: 03 ZX3 Wine Cooled Eng.

Posts: 2,199
FF Reputation: 54 Blurvfocus Excellent Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (1)
NeoGen air pressure

I just completed my 6th autocross and I'm not making any progress. The car is pushing badly and the front tires show drastic signs of rolling under, so I increased the pressure and they rolled under less but the car seemed to push even more and my time went even higher. (They thought I stopped somewhere for ice cream for pete's sake). I was up to 45 psi front.

Trouble is, I'm not consistant yet, so I don't know if the change in elapsed time is because of the tire pressure change or some ham-fisted thing I've unwittingly done.

I'm lost in the woods now- I need a good starting point. If anybody is having good luck with their neogens- can you suggest a pressure that I can set-and-forget (for now) so I have a consistant and reasonable performing car.


__________________
Often wrong but never in doubt.
Blurvfocus is offline  
    Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-05-2008, 09:24 AM   #2
SVT Robzor
Focus Fanatic
 
SVT Robzor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Fan#: 26230
Location: Cumberland, Maine
What I Drive: 2004 CD Silver SVT

Posts: 1,578
FF Reputation: 5 SVT Robzor Good Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (5)
Your air pressure is one big piece to this puzzle, but I also suspect you need to slow down a little.

The Focus is kind of a big ass to get around a corner quickly. It's no Buick, but neither is it a 2200 lb. Honda. I've always had my best results with the SVT applying my inputs as slowly and gently as possible - there is a ton of mass over the front contact patch, AND we're FWD, AND we have an open diff, AND we're both running on street tires, AND (barring some nice camber plates) we're always going to be camber-challenged in front.

Also, make sure you're not trying to go and turn at the same time. Cars with trick front diffs can pull that off, it'll just make us push harder. Slow down your thinking and see if you can lead your inputs some more, and make sure you're not on the throttle too much until you're exiting the corner.

When I started autocrossing the Focus, I was slow because I was just plain slow. Then, I was slow because I tried to drive it way too fast. Now, I'm slow cause I'm just not that great a driver .

45psi sounds like the right ballpark, I have Goodyear Eagle F1 DS-G3s on the SVT, which feature super-squishy sidewall technology (read: bad for turning), and I need to run them at 45psi or more COLD, I've seen 52psi after a run.

EDIT: When's the last time it was aligned? Some rear toe-in, or maybe a bent control arm giving you a tiny bit of positive camber, could ruin your day trying to go around a corner as well.
__________________
2004 SVT Focus
Custom front-bumper-mount bug guts; precision sprayed brake dust on OEM rims; 15% Pine Tree pollen over the clear coat.
No more SVT autocross, I drive the thing in the avatar.
SVT Robzor is offline  
    Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-05-2008, 02:42 PM   #3
svtstu
Focus Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Fan#: 24166
Location: Colorado
What I Drive: 2004 Pitch Black SVT Focus

Posts: 124
FF Reputation: 1 svtstu Good Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (1)
Pressure responces vary greatly between tires, I had a set of 225 width conti-extreme contacts that liked 42 psi up front and 38 out back, now I am on a set of pirelli Pzero nero M+S and they like about 32 up front and 34 out back. My suggestion would be to go at forty front and forty rear and then bleed out the front if you are still pushing, if the tire rolling gets too bad try 44 in each and then bleed the fronts out as needed.
svtstu is offline  
    Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-05-2008, 09:54 PM   #4
Blurvfocus
Focus Fanatic
 
Blurvfocus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Fan#: 15299
Location: Temple, PA
What I Drive: 03 ZX3 Wine Cooled Eng.

Posts: 2,199
FF Reputation: 54 Blurvfocus Excellent Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (1)
Quote:
Originally Posted by SVT Robzor View Post
Your air pressure is one big piece to this puzzle, but I also suspect you need to slow down a little.
Yeah I had that thought too. "Go slow to go fast" type of thing, so I slowed down a little, and sure enough my line was better, more controlled, etc, but my time was slower still!

I've had a few days to think about this- I won't bore you with the details, they're tecnique issues I have to handle. And, I'll try going with 45 psi front and dropping 2 psi every run just to see what happens. (the back is good, btw. It never even hints at slipping out and the tires show no signs of distress whatsoever)

Thanks for your replies- both of you.
__________________
Often wrong but never in doubt.
Blurvfocus is offline  
    Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-06-2008, 10:49 PM   #5
WD40
The Librarian
 
WD40's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Fan#: 5157
Location: Helena, MT
What I Drive: '04 Sonic Blue - SVT 3Door

Posts: 13,116
FF Reputation: 138 WD40 Excellent Standing Member WD40 Excellent Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (3)
The first thing I'd do is save up for some new tires and ditch the NeoGens.
That's not a very good AutoCross tire at all.
The huge diagonal grooves are not conducive to very good cornering grip.
And...as you found out...they have a rather soft sidewall.

Check out Falken Azenis RT-615, Dunlop Sport Z1, Bridgestone RE-01R, Hankook R-S2, Kumho MX if you're going to stay in STS.
See here for a good discussion:
http://www.focusfanatics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=149887
WD40 is offline  
    Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-07-2008, 07:51 PM   #6
Blurvfocus
Focus Fanatic
 
Blurvfocus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Fan#: 15299
Location: Temple, PA
What I Drive: 03 ZX3 Wine Cooled Eng.

Posts: 2,199
FF Reputation: 54 Blurvfocus Excellent Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (1)
Quote:
Originally Posted by WD40 View Post
The first thing I'd do is save up for some new tires and ditch the NeoGens.
That's not a very good AutoCross tire at all.
The huge diagonal grooves are not conducive to very good cornering grip.
And...as you found out...they have a rather soft sidewall.

Check out Falken Azenis RT-615, Dunlop Sport Z1, Bridgestone RE-01R, Hankook R-S2, Kumho MX if you're going to stay in STS.
See here for a good discussion:
http://www.focusfanatics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=149887
I had high hopes for these, they were the only tires that had 100% favorable reviews on Edge Racing, and they are considered an all-season tire. But I noticed right away that they were much slower to respond than the crappy old Goodyears I had on there before. They're not wearing that well either, most likely I'll be ready for something else by the fall. Thanks for the tire suggestions (that was my next question).
__________________
Often wrong but never in doubt.
Blurvfocus is offline  
    Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-07-2008, 08:34 PM   #7
DirtyDeeds
Focus Addict
 
DirtyDeeds's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Fan#: 23692
Location: Gurnee, IL
What I Drive: 2003 SVTF, 2003 G35, 2001 Audi S4

Posts: 762
FF Reputation: 5 DirtyDeeds Good Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (5)
For every tire used in autocross, there is a sweet spot as far as tire pressure. Too low and you lose grip, too high and you still lose grip. Tread compounds, patterns, camber and alignment aside, how much pressure you run has quite a bit to do with how soft or stiff the side walls are on your particular tires. Tires can also handle only so much heat before they become greasy and start losing grip.

45psi is probably a little high to start with. Try starting out with the front tire between 38 - 40 psi and put the rears between 34 - 32psi.

Pick up some chalk and mark the tires where the side wall meets the tread. By seeing which tires are rubbing away the chalk, you can make a more informed decision on adjusting your tire pressure.

Is the car getting slower after a few runs? If so, the tires may be getting hot and greasy. If you think this might be the case, go over to Home Depot and pick up a cheap hand pump garden sprayer. Fill it with water and spray your front tires after the 2nd or 3rd run to keep them cool.

Are you trail braking? This generally the fastest way to get a fwd car through a turn.

Is it possible that you may be over driving the car? I'm only asking this because it's a common mistake for a new autocross driver. I know I did it.

The NeoGen isn't the best tire, but that doesn't mean that we still can't make you faster.
__________________
DirtyDeeds is offline  
    Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-07-2008, 09:08 PM   #8
Dcl2049
MyCarBreaksAlot
 
Dcl2049's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Fan#: 18957
Location: Auburn, AL
What I Drive: 2002 Malibu Blue ZX3

Posts: 8,609
FF Reputation: 69 Dcl2049 Excellent Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (0)
I liked my NeoGens better than the G-Force sports on the track. It may have something to do with the concrete I race on?

In any case, I would run right around 38 up front and around 36 in back. They did seem to get a little greasy but I'm not a "pro" auto-xer so I just sucked it up. I would generally run fastest on my middle laps.

Do the thing with the chalk. ^
When mine was set right it would rub it off all the way to the end of the outside tread grooves and a tad further.
__________________
Yes, that is a banana in my pocket.
Dan - gumpcrew #4
[BBS][Borla][Focus Central][Hella][K&N][Koni][Lentech][Wings West]
#23 STS Wiregrass Region SCCA
Dcl2049 is offline  
    Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-08-2008, 09:37 AM   #9
Blurvfocus
Focus Fanatic
 
Blurvfocus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Fan#: 15299
Location: Temple, PA
What I Drive: 03 ZX3 Wine Cooled Eng.

Posts: 2,199
FF Reputation: 54 Blurvfocus Excellent Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (1)
I've been tampering with the shock settings and seeing a drastic improvement. I set them hard in the back and soft in front (they were half-hard all the way around). So when I run next time I'll play around adjusting in small increments. In the meantime, you guys seem to be in substantial agreement on the pressures; I'll go with them.

Thanks for your help.

btw- I've got to travel for ??? long. So if there are any more thoughts, I'm not ignoring you, I'll respond as soon as I return.
__________________
Often wrong but never in doubt.
Blurvfocus is offline  
    Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-13-2008, 11:59 AM   #10
Schroeder02
Moderator
 
Schroeder02's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Fan#: 53191
Location: Cockeysville, MD
What I Drive: 2013 Red ST & 2009 Focus Race Car

Posts: 2,355
Points 5,488, Level 47
Points: 5,488, Level: 47 Points: 5,488, Level: 47 Points: 5,488, Level: 47
Level Up 69% Completed
Level up: 69% Level up: 69% Level up: 69%
Forum Activity 2%
Activity: 2% Activity: 2% Activity: 2%
FF Reputation: 62 Schroeder02 Excellent Standing Member
Buy-Sell-Trade Rating: (7)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blurvfocus View Post
I've been tampering with the shock settings and seeing a drastic improvement. I set them hard in the back and soft in front (they were half-hard all the way around). So when I run next time I'll play around adjusting in small increments. In the meantime, you guys seem to be in substantial agreement on the pressures; I'll go with them.

Thanks for your help.

btw- I've got to travel for ??? long. So if there are any more thoughts, I'm not ignoring you, I'll respond as soon as I return.
I think your on the right track now I more spring and rebound in the rear will help with rotation. Also I would try running a higher tire pressure in the rear then the front this will also add some more rotation.

Wonder what the Koni spring rates are?
__________________
My rides a 2002 SVT track car, & Boosted 2007 ST with the SAP.
The helmet has a special meaning for many drivers. How important is it to you? - It protects my head.

Do you have any special rituals when the helmet is concerned like many have? - I wipe it so that I can see better.
Schroeder02 is online now  
    Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply

Bookmarks & Social Networks

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Ford Focus Forum, Ford Focus ST Forum, Ford Focus RS Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Every trouble code defined 03OrangeSVT General Forced Induction 9 05-25-2011 01:53 PM
Bag Suspension + Performance: Discuss! Roland07 Brakes, Suspension & Body Chassis 68 06-01-2010 02:03 PM
Kuhmo Ecsta ASX Air Pressure lduran Wheels & Tires - Sponsored By Tire Rack 29 08-18-2006 09:48 PM
Does anybody know how long it will be for FI on the duratec mechanicguy General Forced Induction 35 09-23-2005 01:15 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:51 PM.


Copyright 2002-2014 FocusFanatics.com. All Rights Reserved : Privacy Policy : Advertise Information

Focus Fanatics Ford Focus Forum offers many fun ways for you to engage with other Ford Focus Owners from across the world. Whether it be about the aftermarket performance modifications, technical how-to's, European tuned suspension or awesome fuel economy similar to the Audi S3, Ford Fusion and Acura TLX. You can find all Ford Focus and Focus ST related information here. Join our Ford Focus discussion forums and chat with local Focus enthusiasts in your area. Challenger Hellcat - Charger Hellcat