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Old 05-13-2007, 11:09 PM   #1
eventerke
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ABS limiting at the track/AX?

Had a great day at the NASA AX today - without going into a long drawn-out story (yet ), how many of you find the ABS kicking in when you're trying to brake at the limit and screwing you up?
I'm starting to get a good feel for using the weight transfer in heavy braking to get the back end of the car rotating, but I'm finding that at the absolute limit the ABS kicks in and destroys the balance I'm trying to use.
WD40 mentioned pulling the ABS fuse puts the braking system balance in a 50/50 limp mode, and is a *bad* idea.

Do most of you just deal with this? Is the ABS really telling me the truth on the braking limit?


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Old 05-14-2007, 12:00 AM   #2
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i ended up upgraded my front discs and then pulling the one fuse and found that the biase is mostly even but does favor locking up the back. Play around with it and use which ever feels better to you
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Old 05-14-2007, 12:30 PM   #3
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ABS? What's that?

If its kicking in, I would assume you just exceeded threshold braking.
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Old 05-14-2007, 12:44 PM   #4
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^^^Exactly...you've found the limit.
What tires are you running??

DON'T pull that fuse (46) and expect to stay on track. (or anywhere near on track)
I tried that a month ago at a threshold braking excercise during our test and tune.
While I got out of the hole like a bullet (no TC),
the instant I hit the brakes the car turned 90° sideways since the rears locked up immediately.
Again, I stress...never ever try this on a road course or autocross,
and expect your car not to sustain massive amounts of damage as you leave the course.

The ABS is nothing short of phenomenal on the SVT, especially with the given large rotors.
I'll bet your tires are the limiting factor at the moment, which is why I asked what you were running.
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Old 05-14-2007, 02:03 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WD40 View Post
^^^Exactly...you've found the limit.
What tires are you running??

DON'T pull that fuse (46) and expect to stay on track. (or anywhere near on track)
I tried that a month ago at a threshold braking excercise during our test and tune.
While I got out of the hole like a bullet (no TC),
the instant I hit the brakes the car turned 90° sideways since the rears locked up immediately.
Again, I stress...never ever try this on a road course or autocross,
and expect your car not to sustain massive amounts of damage as you leave the course.

The ABS is nothing short of phenomenal on the SVT, especially with the given large rotors.
I'll bet your tires are the limiting factor at the moment, which is why I asked what you were running.
Concur. You found the limit. Tires are also a BIG contributor.

That said. Threshold braking is an art.

Your car demonstrates is highest braking ability right at the point of lock-up or just before the ABS kicks activates.

I am not saying that you do, but most people brake with the ball of their foot. As a result, they are using about 7X the pressure necessary to effectively slow the car.

Try using your toes. They are just as, if not more sensitive, than your finger tips (step on a sharp rock and you jump - put your hand on a sharp rock and you go "OW!"). Using your toes will allow you to be more progressive with your braking and likely not upset the car as much.

A lot of people "heel and toe" using thier toes. Unless you have a lot of time to practice, it takes a while to master. I personally have never been able to get it right.

As for the ABS fuse. WD40 is right. The SVT ABS system is phenomenal. You'll create more problems for yourself by disabling it. Not only from a systems standpoint, but also one of conditioning. Your body (muscle memory) is trained to react when the ABS kicks in. Remove the ABS, not only do you flat spot tires, but your reaction time is slowed as you process how to proceed.

The toes knows.
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Old 05-14-2007, 01:35 PM   #6
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neither have I but then again i probably don't push my car as hard as others do.
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Old 05-14-2007, 02:06 PM   #7
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OK - thanks for the replies!

I'm running crappy, greasy (when they get hot) Falken Ziex's. They were my "learning set" and now I feel I'm ready to step up to a set of Azenis.
Really helped to learn what it feels like to slide the car around a bit, at least !

I'm hoping to kill them good and dead this Sunday, then I'll *have* to get a new set. They're holding a raffle (AX is a benefit for the JimmyV foundation), and one of the prizes is $500 for tires at Discount Tire - you can guess what I'm hoping for!
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Old 05-14-2007, 02:08 PM   #8
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Can't go wrong with a $500 credit toward tires.

Good luck!
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Old 05-14-2007, 02:34 PM   #9
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If you want to disable TC.. get Tom's tune...
and +2865983698 to not pulling the TC/abs fuse... I tried doing once as well and the rear does become quite happy - almost kicked a few cones b/c of it...
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Old 05-14-2007, 06:32 PM   #10
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pulling the fuse as you all noted creates a problem for the less seasoned driver, but for someone who has raced for a while now especially somthing like an MR2, having the rear end "happy" can actually be a benefit if you know how to use it to your advantage and still eliminating the problem with traction control. Since you are switching tires very soon, i recommend on keeping the fuse in and making sure you are 100% comfortable with the car before you try pulling the fuse. It only helps me have more fun around course, not neccessarrily faster since i MAY have only found like .5secs on the leader
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