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Ford's letter regarding the "PowerShift 6 Speed Operating Characteristics"

183K views 202 replies 77 participants last post by  cdn_guy 
#1 ·
After I scheduled my appointment with a ford dealer in TX, ford customer service sent this electronic letter to me...Sooo my understanding is that this car is built to make all kinds of weird noises.

PowerShift 6 Speed Operating Characteristics
Background

In 2010, Ford launched an all new transmission, PowerShift, an advanced six-speed automatic transmission based on manual transmission technology with class-leading fuel efficiency. This communication will help explain the technology and common operating characteristics of this new transmission found on the Fiesta and Focus in order to improve customer expectations and
experiences. PowerShift is an advanced automatic transmission technology
The PowerShift is really like two 3-speed manual transmissions put together, with the dual clutch and shifting components controlled electronically. Since most of the components are derived from a manual transmission, the PowerShift transmission will drive, sound, and feel like a manual transmission but without the driver interaction.

Service Personnel Support
Since PowerShift Transmission is a new technology, some customers might not be familiar with the normal driving characteristics of this transmission. Service support personnel should be aware of the normal operating characteristics and be able to differentiate between normal characteristics and abnormal symptoms that require service. The following information will
assist with addressing certain potential customer concerns.

Common Characteristics of the PowerShift Transmission
Common Sounds a driver may notice are:

• Double clicking metal sounds. These noises can likely be heard while driving on very smooth surfaces during a 1-2 upshift or a 3-2-1coast down. The sounds occur with every gear engagement, but generally cannot be heard over the background engine, road and wind noises at higher speeds. Most noticeable if the windows are down and the radio is off, these sounds are of the shift forks moving and the synchronizers engaging a gear (similar to a manual transmission). These shifting sounds are part of normal operation.
• Coast down whine. A slight gear whine while slowing or coasting is normal
• Clicking sounds after the engine is turned off. As the vehicle is powered down, the
transmission will cycle the clutches to the released position so it is ready for a safe restart of the engine. This is part of normal operation. Clicking sounds from the
transmission immediately after the engine is turned off are normal.
• Low speed grinding. A slight grinding noise may be heard at about 2 MPH. This noise
is more evident during “trailer-hitching” events (see below). This noise is caused by a
normal bearing rotation and does not affect the durability of the transmission.
• Reverse gear whine. Some PowerShift transmissions will exhibit gear whine in reverse. The level of whine has been significantly reduced in later build vehicles, but can still be detected to some level. This is characteristic of many manual transmissions, and is not a defect or a situation in which a repair should be attempted

Trailer-hitching feel.
Some customers may experience a trailer-hitching feel (or a slight
bumping feel). The trailer-hitching feel may occur in lower forward gears – particularly if the customer is off and on the throttle quickly. It may be more noticeably in a parking lot or when a customer is doing multiple on/off throttle pedal maneuvers. This trailer-hitching/engagement feel is a normal characteristic of the dry clutch-equipped manual transmission design.
Conversely, conventional automatic transmissions are equipped with a torque converter. The torque converter is a fluid coupling device which dampens these positive engagements feels. Diagnostic tips to be used during service visit When evaluating a customer experience regarding this transmission, first compare to a like vehicle. The like vehicle should be at the same transmission fluid temperature as the customer’s vehicle. Sounds will change as the transmission oil changes temperature and viscosity. If the suspect sound is similar to a like transmission at the same temperature, then it is most likely a normal characteristic and no repair attempt should be made.

If the vehicle loses electrical power due to the removal of a power or ground battery cable, or the battery discharges, the transmission will perform an initial system status check upon power restore to verify shift motor position. This results in a series of mechanical noises for 10-30 seconds. The transmission will not engage and the vehicle will not move while this is
happening. This is normal after an electrical power loss to the transmission.

“Green” clutch break-in period
New, replacement, and reset clutches are “green” and require a break in period before shift event quality is maximized. During the break-in period, green clutches may exhibit:
• A rattle noise similar to a loose catalytic converter shield. This noise is commonly heard after light throttle 1-2, 2-3 or 3-4 upshifts. This rattle noise will diminish greatly as the clutch completes the break-in.
• A take-off shudder/launch judder (shaky vs. smooth).
• A harsh-shift feel during the first few cold shifts before the transmission reaches operating temperature.

All of the above conditions will diminish and the customer will notice progressively better launch and smoother shifting within the first few hundred miles of mixed driving as clutch break-in occurs. Note: The break-in process may take longer for highway driving, where the clutch is not shifting.
The transmission will automatically learn and make adaptations during shifting events, so it is important to evaluate after allowing sufficient driving time for adaptations to occur. This green clutch feel may reappear if the clutch touch points are reset and/or the clutch is removed and/or replaced. The condition may last longer for a clutch replacement than a reset. A reset may take up to 100 miles to get the new touch points learned to the point of not making
any of the out-of-adjustment noise. A clutch replacement may take up to 1000 miles to reach break-in dependent on the customer style of driving.
The break-in period can be minimized by performing the adaptive drive cycle exactly as described in the Workshop Manual, Section 307-11 (Fiesta) and 307-01 (Focus)
 
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#2 ·
Trailer-hitching feel.
Some customers may experience a trailer-hitching feel (or a slight
bumping feel). The trailer-hitching feel may occur in lower forward gears – particularly if the customer is off and on the throttle quickly. It may be more noticeably in a parking lot or when a customer is doing multiple on/off throttle pedal maneuvers. This trailer-hitching/engagement feel is a normal characteristic of the dry clutch-equipped manual transmission design.
This is what I experience the most. It is somewhat annoying but no big deal really. I am glad this is the biggest problem I have with this DCT.
 
#3 ·
I know that some of the noises & behaviors are normal, but the terrible grinding noises some folks are experiencing are beyond the scope of 'reasonable'. Mine never did it at 2900 miles, so why are theirs doing it after 10,000 - 15,000 miles? Yes, I've heard all the little clickety-clack noises while the transmission does its thing driving slowly around parking lots, but the noise that folks have posted on YouTube isn't anything like that. Excuses, excuses. I'm so glad I got out of that car before any issues arose (other than the issues I had with MFT).
 
#8 ·
The 6F35 is less efficient, having a fluid coupling (torque converter) and lots of hydraulics. The dry dual clutch Powershift DCT is lighter, simpler, and more efficient when it is functioning properly having been based on a pair of three speed manual transmissions sharing a single transmission case and actuated using servo motors for the gear selection and the clutch actuation.

Personally as long as the DCT works correctly I prefer it over even over a properly working 6F35.

I don't like how the 6F35 operates. The constant locking and unlocking of the torque converter while trying to maintain speed on the freeway, and the fact that it won't shift to 6th before 41 mph in every 2.5 or 3.0L Fusion I'd driven.

It was merely adequate with the 1.6 L ecoBoost in the Escape, but I am not sold on its long term longevity even more so than the DCT. Ford has never really built a great fwd torque converter backed planetary automatic transmission, certainly none of the products to come from the Van **** Assembly plant have held up that well. Although in some cases that's due to the prior owners not maintaining them at intervals much more frequently than recommended by the owners guide or the service manual. The AX4N/4F50N tended to implode some point just past 100,000 miles without fail.
 
#14 ·
Guys comparing a DSG of a golf or any VW product is still not the same because they are wet setup...the hydraulic action smooths out any roughness or grinding. The focus is a dry setup, which is lighter and cheaper, but no fluids are present to hush the unpleasant characteristics

It should still be noted that several DCTs were indeed faulty, and even if this is the normal operation of the transmissions, Ford should know better than to think customers will believe/accept that

More reason to get an actual manual!
 
#20 ·
I like to use the motorcycle comparison to demonstrate to those non familiar with our DCT. The VAG DSG transmission is much like most motorcycle manual transmissions (wet clutch packs), the shift action and clutch engagement is very smooth, in fact, you can "slip" wet clutches all day long and they don't really complain. Now, take our dry clutch DCT setup, I liken it to a dry clutch Ducati transmission.. Every ride a modern Ducati? The clutch housing is quite noisey (especially at idle in neutral -sounds like tambourine), it is tricky to get a smooth shift out of one and you are very "aware" of gear selection and clutch positon, simply by the loud noises and "clunkiness" of it all. BUT, it is a much more effecient setup (no parasitic losses from the clutches spinning in oil), and no "slippage" when engaging gears. Another benefit from a dry clutch setup is no clutch fibres (normal wear and tear) contaminating your oil. That's why most conventional (Japanese bikes anyway) motorcycles require very frequent oil changes (3000kms usually) ---- the oil gets black from the clutch fibres, literally. Look at a Ducati's oil at 3-5k... still golden yellow/brown.
That is probably why VW/Audi require the frequent DSG oil changes at a somewhat great expense....

Is the DCT better than VW's DSG? That is not a simple answer, I guess the best answer I give people is, "they're different. Ask a Ducati owner if his loud, noisey dry clutch motorcyle is better than most Japanese bikes, and he will give you a resounding "Hell, yes".. that is Italian music", whereas, Honda/Kawi/Yamaha/Suzuki owner's consider it loud and "unfriendly", they'll stick with thier nice and "quiet" wet clutch setups.
I don't know about you, but, I quite like not having my clutches in the same oil as my transmission... longer life and almost no maintenance. When it comes to bikes, well, I've been riding and racing them for much of my 42 years on this earth, and while I do like Ducati's, I'll stick with the Japanese bikes, since they are considerably cheaper (and easier to fix.. LOL)

Cheers
 
#16 ·
The MTX-75 was used in the original Focus and every U.S. Focus 5 speed manual since then.

The 6MT in the ST was originally used in the Mondeo behind a turbodiesel engine with slightly different internal gear ratios. The MTX-75 is a Ford gearbox, the MMT6 is another Ford-Getrag gearbox and is layed out internally similarly to the DCT in terms of having two sets of gears in a single case and two final drives, although the MMT6 is older than the DCT.
 
#19 ·
I came from exclusively driving manual transmissions to the DCT when I bought my Focus. I definitely like how it behaves like a manual transmission, but if you came from driving only slushbox autos, I could understand how the DCT would feel funny. The noises don't bother me, it's what comes with automation of a manual trans. Mine's not too noisy anyway.
Love the 2nd gear whine while decelerating :3
Also love the downshifting with revmatching. Downshifting a slushbox auto is the worst feeling in the world to me. GLURK
 
#21 ·
Dear Ford,
Regarding your letter acknowledging the grinding, whining, clicking, clunking and other sounds of metal on metal, it is only fair that copies of this letter be clearly posted on EVERY new Focus with the 6 speed Power Shift Transmission.

I would think that the letter should be affixed next to the manufacturer's "window sticker" so that every potential customer can make an informed decision.

In other words Ford, this is nothing more, nothing less, than drug manufacturers do in posting the possible adverse affects to those who use their drugs right their on the bottle. And in your television advertising, you can run a little banner right there at the bottom of the screen.

What? It might decrease sales? I say poppycock! Despite being told that drugs will make users bleed, choke, cough, wheeze, poop, pee uncontrollably, vomit, forget stuff....and on and on, it makes NO difference. Prescription drug use is at an all time high. Heck, you might even sell more cars.....

Yours very truly,
The Average Joe
 
#22 ·
Wiki Quote...
At the time of launch in 2003[2][6] - it became the world's first dual clutch transmission in a series production car,[2][6] in the German-market Volkswagen Golf Mk4 R32[2][6] and shortly afterwards, worldwide in the original Audi TT 3.2;[7] and for the first few years of production, this original DSG transmission was only available in transversely orientated[2] front-engine, front-wheel-drive — or Haldex Traction-based four-wheel-drive vehicle layouts.

The first DSG transaxle that went into production for the Volkswagen Group mainstream marques had six forward speeds (and one reverse),[6][7] and used wet/submerged multi-plate clutch packs[2][4] (Volkswagen Group internal code: DQ250, parts code prefix: 02E).[7][8] It has been paired to engines with up to 350 N·m (260 lb·ft) of torque,[6][7] and the two-wheel-drive version weighs 93 kg (210 lb). It is manufactured at Volkswagen Group's Kassel plant,[2] with a daily production output of 1,500 units.[6]

At the start of 2008, another world first,[6] an additional 70 kg (150 lb) seven-speed DSG transaxle[6] (Volkswagen Group internal code: DQ200, parts code prefix: 0AM)[8][9][10] became available. It differs from the six-speed DSG, in that uses two single-plate dry clutches (of similar diameter).[10] This clutch pack was designed by LuK Clutch Systems, LLC.[11] This seven-speed DSG is used in smaller front-wheel-drive cars with smaller displacement engines with lower torque outputs,[6][7][10] such as the latest Volkswagen Golf,[6][10] Volkswagen Polo Mk5,[10] and the new SEAT Ibiza,[7] due to it having a maximum torque handling capacity of 250 N·m (180 lb·ft).[6] It has considerably less oil capacity than the six-speed DQ250; this new DQ200 uses just 1.7 litres (0.37 imp gal; 0.45 US gal) of transmission fluid.[6]

In September 2010, VW launched a new seven-speed DSG built to support 500 N·m (370 lb·ft), the DQ500. Its first use was in the Audi TT-RS
End wiki quote...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct-Shift_Gearbox

So VAG does have dual dry clutch transmissions too, and although I havne't driven an Audi TT RS, I bet it feels just as good as the wet clutch DSG's. Although, yes, this is just my assumption.
 
#26 ·
“Green” clutch break-in period
New, replacement, and reset clutches are “green” and require a break in period before shift event quality is maximized. During the break-in period, green clutches may exhibit:
• A rattle noise similar to a loose catalytic converter shield. This noise is commonly heard after light throttle 1-2, 2-3 or 3-4 upshifts. This rattle noise will diminish greatly as the clutch completes the break-in.
• A take-off shudder/launch judder (shaky vs. smooth).
• A harsh-shift feel during the first few cold shifts before the transmission reaches operating temperature.

All of the above conditions will diminish and the customer will notice progressively better launch and smoother shifting within the first few hundred miles of mixed driving as clutch break-in occurs. Note: The break-in process may take longer for highway driving, where the clutch is not shifting.
The transmission will automatically learn and make adaptations during shifting events, so it is important to evaluate after allowing sufficient driving time for adaptations to occur. This green clutch feel may reappear if the clutch touch points are reset and/or the clutch is removed and/or replaced. The condition may last longer for a clutch replacement than a reset. A reset may take up to 100 miles to get the new touch points learned to the point of not making
any of the out-of-adjustment noise. A clutch replacement may take up to 1000 miles to reach break-in dependent on the customer style of driving.
The break-in period can be minimized by performing the adaptive drive cycle exactly as described in the Workshop Manual, Section 307-11 (Fiesta) and 307-01 (Focus)
So the problems that a lot of us have ( http://www.focusfanatics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=275780 ) are accurately described here. All of our cars have over 1,000 miles, but the dealers still use this as ammo to claim that it's normal despite the fact that plenty of time was given for the clutches to break in. It should have read "If these "green" clutch problems persist after 1000 miles, the clutch internals should be inspected."
 
#27 ·
I actually purchased this car because it had the DCT transmission. I had one in California for a rental and really liked the DCT. As a general comment, I think the DCT actually functions quite nicely considering it IS a manual transmission, and also for how new the concept is.

Being 100% realistic, 50% of the manual transmission drivers I've driven with, drive more jerky than this DCT. Seriously... Think about that one.

I actually feel the DCT up and down shifts quite smoothly, and was also pleasantly surprised on how well it takes off from a stop in 1st gear.

However, that said, there are certain situations where things can go awry. For instance, when driving slowly (just above creeping) up a decent slope, say from a stop light. The programming makes it upshift to 2nd gear WAY too early, and the car starts jerking and lunging.

Is this the transmissions fault? Nope.
Is this the drivers fault? Nope. (but in hindsight, he/she could just simply press the accelerator pedal a little bit more like he/she would have to do in a manual car, and the car wouldn't try to upshift into 2nd)
Is it the Transmission Controller's programming fault? Yes, I do think so.

In my opinion, the majority (if not all) of the "issues" that people have with the DCT, could be fixed in the software.

So to me, this leaves two questions...
Why is Ford Engineers not working like crazy on updated software?
Why is NO ONE ELSE working on better software?
~~~If I had more time, I'd be all over this.

In the VW world many manufacturers flash the DSG Trans Controller for better performance, firming shifts, moving shift points, making it all around "better", etc.

If there is something sketchy or quirky with a car (or anything for that matter) it only takes someone with enough drive to fix it.
 
#28 ·
In my opinion, the majority (if not all) of the "issues" that people have with the DCT, could be fixed in the software.

So to me, this leaves two questions...
Why is Ford Engineers not working like crazy on updated software?
Why is NO ONE ELSE working on better software?
Having worked in the industrial control industry, a lot of onlookers used to say fix it with software. Sometimes a kludge can be done, but it's really hard to fix broken actuators and leaky seals with a software update.

And as far as Ford not working on this, I've had 4 different versions of DCT software installed on my car so far (2011 factory, December 2011, 12B37, and a newer version when I took it in Jan 2013.) Somebody is doing something, I'm just not quite sure what it is. It still hasn't removed the oil from my clutches or fixed my squeaking actuator.
 
#36 ·
Because the 4F27E was broken. It's wasn't very smooth or efficient. It had four widely spaced ratios so unless you could keep it in 4th gear with the torque converter locked it got terrible fuel economy, it also tended to shift all over the place with the lightest change of throttle application.

I was not fond of the sloppy transmission behavior of the 2009 and 2011 models I'd driven.

The DCT I owned operated properly and was so much nicer to drive than any MKII automatic.

A 4 speed is less efficient than a 6 speed, the only car in the class still using the old gearbox technology is the Corolla, and although they still sell well it's well behind being the best in class.

I did however end up with an ST because that was what I really wanted in the first place.
 
#37 ·
New Car Saturday--Noise

Hello to all[wave]

I just bought my first 2013 Ford Focus SE (and ford in general) this Saturday. Love the style and drive. I am originally from Europe so I always wanted a fairly small stylish car. Now..That was Saturday..Drove the car from the dealer home with windows up. Didn't hear anything. When got close to home and turned down window I heard a regular grinding noise, rattle, (I am horrible explaining noises in English[dunno]) going very slow and between 1-2. This is not happening all the time. I am suspecting it's the regular noise but because its not really bad I was thinking mounts, something loose..etc..I read the Ford Letter here but still I am thinking to call the dealer tomorrow morning and bitch..The car has 450 min..got it with 177miles on cause the had to bring me a black. I would say you hear it 2 times out of 5 maybe? If this was the DCT should be doing it all the time? Ford says the clutch needs to brake in..so is that BS should I wait?

Sorry for hijacking the thread..I just dint want to make a new one for this issue.

Thanks in advance
 
#38 ·
I would wait until at least 1,000 miles before taking it to the dealer. Green clutches take a while to break in, and like the letter says, it can take up to 1k miles. Mine made the same noises until around that time, and I now have 2,100 on the car with zero issues.
Give it a few hundred more miles and see what happens. My car is a 2013 and from what I've experienced, they've fixed a lot of the problems that affected the 2012's, so after your inital break-in period, you should be fine :)
 
#39 ·
I have 12,000 miles. They replaced my clutches/seals around 4,000 miles. It's been great since then, but if I rev high in the lower gears 1,2, or 3, the higher it revs, once it gets passed like 4,000 RPM, I start to hear a high-pitched grind, but as soon as I shift up it squeels again but then goes away. Is that normal/anyone else experiencing this? I have the DCT. Basically I don't hear any noises unless I rev high. It's not a loud grind/squeel but sounds like metal on metal for sure.
I wanna install my Injected tune but am thinking to take it in and have it checked by the dealer first?
opinions? thanks.
 
#40 ·
Sure doesn't sound normal to me...but who knows what the dealer will tell you.

Before you do your "injected tune", be aware that this could compromise your factory warranty. There's another thread about this topic, but the bottom line is that Ford and other manufacturers are aware that aftermarket tunes are available that can be "undone" by owners before bringing the car in for service, and they have developed ways to determine if the tunes have ever been done.

Naturally, if Ford has any reason to presume the tune contributed to an otherwise-warrantable claim, they will likely deny coverage.
 
#43 ·
This some Freddy Krueger-type [:)][:)][:)][:)]; I can't tell what's nightmare and what's reality anymore...
 
#46 ·
Yup, still grinding. ->Listen here! [:D]<- They never have looked into replacing anything yet.

Last time I took it in was a few months ago when they did a test drive without me after I requested to drive with the technician on my lunch break. I can't find any time to take it in because they only have transmission techs during the week (8am-5pm or so) and I commute 100 miles a day and can't really afford to keep missing work. Ironically, it's the same reason I purchased a new car.

I guess what I'm trying to say is: I haven't taken it in recently because I don't feel like I should have to pay for a rental car.
 
#49 ·
I just got this handout from the field engineer myself.

I had brought the car in and reproduced the low speed grinding noise with the tech and he backordered a clutch pack (i've had it replaced once before already prior to this...). However, a few weeks later the field engineer came out and spent a day with my car and couldn't reproduce the grinding noise so he cancelled the new clutch pack and just gave me this handout.

When I reproduced the sound with the tech I could get it to do it for ~10 seconds very reliably. But in those few weeks between reproducing it and the field engineer looking at it the noise got much better, almost entirely going away except for under very specific circumstances (low speed on incline, babying the throttle, mostly when turning). The only thing that changed in this time I might attribute to this change is that I ran 3 tanks of Shell premium gas through it.

I still get no where near the highway fuel efficiency others are getting, at max getting 35 MPG with no wind and flat freeway for 400 miles. At 26000 miles, so I don't think I can lemon it anymore.
 
#50 ·
I just got this handout from the field engineer myself.

I had brought the car in and reproduced the low speed grinding noise with the tech and he backordered a clutch pack (i've had it replaced once before already prior to this...). However, a few weeks later the field engineer came out and spent a day with my car and couldn't reproduce the grinding noise so he cancelled the new clutch pack and just gave me this handout.

When I reproduced the sound with the tech I could get it to do it for ~10 seconds very reliably. But in those few weeks between reproducing it and the field engineer looking at it the noise got much better, almost entirely going away except for under very specific circumstances (low speed on incline, babying the throttle, mostly when turning). The only thing that changed iIn this time I might attribute to this change is that I ran 3 tanks of Shell premium gas through it.

I still get no where near the highway fuel efficiency others are getting, at max getting 35 MPG with no wind and flat freeway for 400 miles. At 26000 miles, so I don't think I can lemon it anymore.
Even if it had 2,600 miles, an occasional transmission noise and not quite meeting EPA highway estimates wouldn't qualify for "lemon law" treatment anyway. 35 mpg on the highway isn't bad: how fast are you cruising?
 
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