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Oil Leak: Dealer said Ford stated This is NORMAL

74K views 179 replies 61 participants last post by  Remog 
#1 ·
I took my car in because there's oil seeping from between the Engine and The Transmission. Also a very metallic rattle when the car is in 6th gear and low RPM's. Like going up an incline at almost 40mph.

I just got a call and they said the tech couldn't reproduce the noise and the Oil leak is normal. Its not oil she said,. its some sort of factory fluid that they use during assembly and quite normal for it to leak.

I have officially HEARD THEM ALL now!. THank you FORD!.

I told her that It never did that before and she said that the Tech has had quite a few cases where they saw that same leak and contacted Ford and was told that was a Normal condition of this vehicle. [facepalm]
 
#2 ·
Why would they contact Ford about a leak? This sounds like a big, fat lie to me.

Take it to a different dealer, and when they fix it, call Ford & tell them this story. No car should be leaking ANY kind of fluid, regardless if it was used during assembly (which is B.S.)
 
#6 ·
From TSB 11-12-13:

SERVICE PROCEDURE

1. Inspect the base of the transmission clutch housing for evidence of transmission fluid leak. Transmission fluid will be slick versus sticky. If the fluid leak is sticky and honey colored, it may be mistaken for engine oil or transmission lubricant. This condition may be caused by excessive rust inhibitor applied to the flywheel during manufacturing. Wipe clean the rust inhibitor from the transmission housing with Motorcraft® Metal Brake Parts Cleaner or equivalent.

Are you saying that the TSB is wrong or that you are sure that it wasn't rust inhibitor?
 
#8 ·
This is precisely the TSB they're basing things off of. I showed up a little while ago to take a test ride with the actual Service Manager and of course you could barely hear the noise. He said that's normal and it's just how a manual transmission would sound if you were lugging along in too low a gear. Well you'd think the programming of the DCT would prevent that and downshift a gear. Ugh.

So we got back to the dealership and he went into research the leak and referenced another TSB that involves replacing some Seals. They told me they would order those and give me a call to bring the car back in when the parts get in. He also said there's a TSB procedure they have to run through to determine if they will proceed with the seal replacements so I'll have to wait and find out what they discover. I guess they have to be certain its truly OIL and not that rust inhibitor stuff.

So at least thats something. I'll know more in a couple weeks I guess.
 
#13 ·
I've often wondered if these dealers don't get reimbursed enough by Ford to make it worth their time.

Sent from my Android using FF Mobile 2.
What else do they do with their time then? I thought the vast majority of their business was warranty work? Most people whose cars are out of warranty don't take them to a dealer for repairs. I can see some shops avoiding certain high-risk jobs though.
 
#17 ·
I noticed this same leak on my SEL when peforming the first oil change. I took it to the dealership for them to check and was also told it was excess lubricant seeping out from the assembly of the car. I simply told them okay and that I would keep an eye on it. I did not notice anything seeping out when I did my last oil change, which would be its fourth oil change as I have about 28K miles on my car already.
 
#26 ·
#28 ·
It definitely looks like the oil is coming from where the tranny joins to the engine. Its worth taking it to the dealer for that. I don't have that and I have almost 20k miles on mine.
 
#30 ·
Mine had about the same amount of oil visible externally, and after opening up the bell housing, it was confirmed that I had bad transmission input/output shaft seals and that contaminated the clutches. TSB 11-12-13 was performed...new seals and clutch pack. Works much better now... and, no more leak.
 
#31 ·
Sad to see visible leaks and people still getting turned down. I haven't made the time to go to the other dealer that was recommended in my area yet.
 
#32 ·
Hi gang,

If you're experiencing this kind of leak, please reach out to me via PM so I can get involved. I'll need your VIN, preferred servicing dealer, mileage, full name, and daytime phone number. I'll get your regional customer service managers involved and make sure someone contacts you promptly. If you have any other questions or concerns, just let me know.

Thanks,
Crystal
 
#33 ·
Hi, I dropped by my Ford Dealer this morning just to see what was involved with them checking this out. I showed the pictures I took to a guy at the service counter. He said that they would need at least a few hours to diagnose. He also said that they would need to drive it and use dye to verify the leak. Anyway, I will have them look at it this week and report back the result. Thanks for the replies!

Matt
 
#34 ·
Dye? Really? I mean, that is an option for locating an UNKNOWN source of a leak, but, really, if the tech read the TSB 11-12-13, and verified that the substance is oil (dark brown/black like your photo, not honey brown/redish which is simply undercoating), its obvious where the oil leak is coming from.... good luck. [thumb]
 
#35 ·
I dropped my car off first thing this morning and they were able to see the leak (said it was oil). He said it was the rear main seal and they have ordered the part. They also said that they would need the car for a few days once the part comes in and are getting me a rental. Hopefully this is all that is wrong with it. Any one else had this replaced?

Thanks,

Matt
 
#38 ·
Is there much of a chance that oil is getting into the transmission?
No. It's not engine oil leaking; it's actually oil from the transmission that's used to lubricate the gears leaking OUT of the transmission. It seeps through the seal and gets onto the clutch. That causes slippage and the car's electronics try to compensate (I can only assume out of normal pre-determined conditions from the engineers) and what you end up getting are these weird grinding noises and RPM flares (low/no power when changing gears due to slippage) and other low-speed driveability jerking/bucking issues.
 
#43 ·
I called them back and asked if they had ordered the clutches with the seal and they said no. He said that they would check them when they are replacing the seal but he didn't think there would be a problem.

When they are replacing the seal, how much effort is involved in checking the clutches?

What would they be looking for to tell if they have been compromised?

Seems like they would just replace them since they are already right there? How much are they?

Thanks for all of your responses! I want to have as much information as possible so that this is done right the first time.

Matt
 
#44 ·
The TSB requires that the clutch pack be replaced as if there is an oil seal leak onto the clutch material it can cause it to slip and get destroyed so if they are stupid and don't order the clutch pack at the same time then you're not going to get the car back and working properly any time soon.
 
#46 ·
Sure.

TSB
11-12-13 AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION FLUID LEAK

Publication Date: December 23, 2011

FORD: 2012 Focus


ISSUE:
Some 2012 Focus vehicles equipped with an automatic transmission may exhibit a transmission fluid leak from the transmission clutch housing.

ACTION:
Follow the Service Procedure steps to correct the condition.

SERVICE PROCEDURE

Inspect the base of the transmission clutch housing for evidence of transmission fluid leak. Transmission fluid will be slick versus sticky.
If the fluid leak is sticky and honey colored, it may be mistaken for engine oil or transmission lubricant. This condition may be caused by excessive rust inhibitor applied to the flywheel during manufacturing. Wipe clean the rust inhibitor from the transmission housing with Motorcraft® Metal Brake Parts Cleaner or equivalent.
Is transmission fluid present at the base of the transmission clutch housing?
Yes - Proceed to Step 3.
No - This procedure does not apply. Refer to Workshop Manual (WSM), Section 307-11 for normal diagnostics.
Replace both the inner input shaft seal, located between both input shafts and the hollow outer input shaft case seal. Refer to WSM, Section 307-01.
Verify clutch self-adjusters are locked on clutch assembly. Refer to WSM, Section 307-01.
Install a new Clutch Assembly Kit. Follow instructions provided in the kit.
NOTE: CLUTCH SELF ADJUSTER LOCKS MUST BE RELEASED BEFORE TRANSMISSION IS INSTALLED OR CLUTCH WILL NOT OPERATE.



Install the transmission assembly. Refer to WSM, Section 307-01.
Perform Adaptive Drive Cycle. Refer to WSM, Section 307-01.
NOTE: FAILURE TO PERFORM ALL STEPS OF THE ADAPTIVE LEARNING ROUTINES AND THE DRIVE CYCLE MAY RESULT IN ERRATIC SHIFTS AND DRIVEABILITY CONCERNS




PART NUMBER PART NAME
W705448-S441 Flexplate-To-Clutch Nuts (2 Pkg Req)
W715491-S442 Ball Joint Bolt
W520415-S442 Ball Joint Nut
YS4Z-3N324-AA Bearing Retainer Strap
W520102-S442 Bearing Retainer Nut
AE8Z-1S177-A Halfshaft Seal Kit (2 Req)
XT-11-QDC Motorcraft® Dual Clutch Trans Fluid
AE8Z-7052-A Input Shaft Seal Inner
AE8Z-7048-A Input Shaft Seal Outer
9U7Z-19A506-BA Transaxle Input Shaft/Spline Lubricant
XL-2 Motorcraft® High Temperature Nickel Anti-Seize Lubricant
AE8Z-7064-A Clutch-To-Hollow Input Shaft Snap Rring
BV6Z-7B546-A Dual Clutch Assembly Kit
PM-4-A Motorcraft® Metal Brake Parts Cleaner


WARRANTY STATUS:
Eligible Under Provisions Of New Vehicle Limited Warranty Coverage
IMPORTANT: Warranty/ESP coverage limits/policies are not altered by a TSB. Warranty/ESP coverage limits are determined by the identified causal part and verified using the OASIS part coverage tool.

OPERATION DESCRIPTION TIME
111213A 2012 Focus Automatic Transmission: Inspect For Transmission Fluid Leak, Replace The Inner Input Shaft Seal, Outer Input Shaft Case Seal And Clutch Assembly Includes Time To Remove And Install Transmission, Perform Clutch Adaptive Learning Procedure And Drive Cycle (Do Not Use With Any Other Labor Operations) 6.5 Hrs

DEALER CODING
BASIC PART NO. CONDITION CODE
7052 d8

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

NOTE: The information in Technical Service Bulletins is intended for use by trained, professional technicians with the knowledge, tools, and equipment to do the job properly and safely. It informs these technicians of conditions that may occur on some vehicles, or provides information that could assist in proper vehicle service. The procedures should not be performed by "do-it-yourselfers". Do not assume that a condition described affects your car or truck. Contact a Ford or Lincoln dealership to determine whether the Bulletin applies to your vehicle. Warranty Policy and Extended Service Plan documentation determine Warranty and/or Extended Service Plan coverage unless stated otherwise in the TSB article. The information in this Technical Service Bulletin (TSB) was current at the time of printing. Ford Motor Company reserves the right to supercede this information with updates. The most recent information is available through Ford Motor Company's on-line technical resources.

Copyright © 2011 Ford Motor Company
 
#48 ·
Unless it was engine oil and was an external leak away from the rear main seal that is completely unlikely.

11-12-13 specifically states if its transmission fluid that it more than likely leaked onto the clutches and they must be replaced as a part of the TSB.
 
#50 ·
Engine oil from a rear main seal can destroy the clutch the same as the transmission fluid, but that would have been a less likely leak and one that wasn't covered by this TSB.

The more common leak would be the one from a transmission seal leaking onto the clutches and seeping out of the case between the engine and gearbox.
 
#51 ·
Ok, so if I get what you are saying...if it is only oil (what the dealershop is saying) then the clutches probably don't need to be replaced. They would see if anything is damaged when they open it up...or should I push for them to be replaced now. Sorry for all the questions but I bought a new car hoping it would be reliable. Love the car but I would like this to be taken care of right the first ime.

Thanks,

Matt
 
#52 ·
If oil has leaked into the bell housing (which the dealer has admitted that it has, and you can see that in the pictures ), then the clutches have definitely become contaminated with oil and need to be replaced. TSB 11-12-13 talks about replacing the seals AND the clutches, I would press your dealer to do the job properly.
 
#54 ·
The TSB 11-12-13 is specifically for the "automatic" dual clutch transmission as this is the only one that allegedly had this issue commonly enough to require a technical service bulletin. Are you losing engine oil? If so from where? Is the engine consuming the oil (burning it), leaking it?

The tsb mentioned is referring to an internal transmission seal leaking which leads to an external transmission fluid leak, this fluid leak allows fluid to contaminate the clutch pack destroying it.
 
#55 ·
I think the engine is consuming it. Nothing coming out of the exhaust. I'm losing between 1/2 to 1 quart between changes. The service advisore says 1 quart every 1000 miles is considered within specs.[facepalm]
 
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