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Yet another SPI knocking -- Will Fix It!

52K views 140 replies 22 participants last post by  yosso 
#1 · (Edited)
[:)][:)][:)][:)][:)][:)] January 15, 2012 edit by LugNut: This thread has become popular, thanks! It was not intended as a how-to, but I bet you'll find it helpful if you are thinking of rebuilding your SPI. Much later in the thread, with the rebuild now done, I've added parts and tools lists as well as lots of pictures. But _do_ read through the entire thread from the start because you'll learn from my challenges, other member's helpful hints, and pick up many details that are not in the later lists or pictures. Enjoy the biting humor too, and be safe! [:)][:)][:)][:)][:)][:)]

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Newbie to the FF, but an old hand at repairing cars. Just acquired a 2001 P-code SE sedan from some nice folk. The engine suddenly developed a knock in their driveway at a startup, and the nonmechanical sellers said they hadn't driven it since. I've started the engine briefly twice now, and yes it knocks!

This forum was very useful in identifying the likely cause -- a dropped valve seat. Starting tomorrow or the day after, I will pull the head and see what's up. I'm prepared to pull the whole engine and go through it, if necessary. I see the rebuilt heads with new and improved seats on eBay.

Degreased the engine bay and underhood, as well as the outside of the body and wheels, this afternoon to get things rolling. Will be searching the site for y'alls wisdom, but please feel free to list applicable links here! [headbang]
 
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#2 ·
I'll tell you now, the engine is toast. When you hear rod knock, its from the valve seat dropping out of the head and destroying the piston and bending the connecting rod. 100 bucks says the cylinder walls are scarred to hell. My 02 Focus SPI didnt knock but the dropped valve seat destroyed the top of the piston. Check out the vid of my shit SPI that I used to have on my youtube channel.
 
#3 ·
Could be!

"I'll tell you now, the engine is toast."

Yep -- Both the buyer and seller knew that, so the one-owner car changed hands at an appropriate price. And I had it flat-bedded here to eliminate more damage.

Otherwise, this 5-speed car seems in very good shape for its 11 years. So far I just found little things that are quite fixable (trunk lid lifts, gas filler latch, hood release handle hanging down, window tint that needs removing, spare tire at 2 psi, etc.), and the car needs further detailing inside and out and inside de-smoke-odoring.

I'll take and post pics. Wouldn't be surprised if the piston and maybe rod are whacked, but with any luck the cylinder and crank aren't bad; not gonna take you up on the bet because it's very possible. I'm sure my machine shop guys would be happy to see the block walk in! If the block comes out, I'll likely put a new clutch set in while I'm there.

This car is hopefully going to the in-laws, so an engine swap, for more power, isn't appropriate nor hopefully the cheapest route given my free labor. We'll find out -- that's what makes it fun!

Have a link to the factory service manual? [???:)]
 
#4 ·
As about 95% of us on here have said and will say again, do a Zetec swap, do NOT put in another SPI. Really...why would you put in another crappy SPI when you could do a Zetec swap for the same amount of money or less as it would to get another running SPI?

I dont know of a link to factory service manual but someone else on here might.
 
#5 ·
^^ not trying to start an arguement here. but to the op. if you do repair the current spi motor if it is fixable or replace it with another spi motor while the head is off from it you can take it to a machine shop and have the valve seats changed over to the revised ones that are supposed to not drop. those seats are available from ford and a engine shop will do the valve seats pretty cheap. i plan to do this if i get my contour on the road while my focus is still hanging in there, ill be up to 100k this week and am starting to fear the valve seat dropping
 
#6 ·
This one went at just over 132K miles. From on-line pics, most seem to have severe damage to the head but maybe those are just the worst ones I'm seeing.

Starting a hunt now for detailed threads on pulling the head (know any?) because I don't have a workshop manual yet ...
 
#7 ·
Can't upload the pics!

Well ... I have a few pics to post, but the site says they are "too small!"

But I read elsewhere that maybe new users must have 25 posts before they can upload to the gallery?

Anyway, after working on a few other things this morning on the SE, and adding to the nonengine parts-needed list, I've now started the surgery on the SPI. Battery was first to come out -- it needed some water and is getting a slow recharge (car had sat for the last month). Then the battery will get a desulferizing while the engine is rebuilt.

Still don't have a service manual, even after stopping at two bookstores this afternoon for a Haynes, etc. version. But I'm making progress on getting the stuff off of the top, sides, and back of the engine. Those little release levers for the wiring harness, onto the fuel injector rail, were interesting. Have the exhaust heat shield and EGR bolts soaking with Liquid Wrench overnight because they are rusty.

That oil filter placement is sure user-hostile!

Radiator drain was convenient. I've yet to remove the lower radiator hose, but is there also a separate drain plug/petcock somewhere on the block?

Now off to search the site for info on getting into and removing the timing set. And for links to discount mailorder OEM parts vendors.
 
#8 ·
Sleepy Sunday

Starting work on it this Sunday morning, and have the timing belt exposed.

That belts-side engine mount and top timing belt cover, both of cast pot metal or heavy aluminum alloy, were easy to remove but sure look like there's a lot of leverage going through them. Any problems with those cracking? Mine are fine.

Just pulled all four spark plugs, and except for needing replacing, all look fine including #4 and #2.
 
#9 ·
The plot thickens ...

Gotta get to those 25 posts for the pics!

In now for lunch, but got the crank pulley/damper off, and the valve cover. I've done everything so far with the car down on the concrete, but did have to turn the front wheels far to the right to get my impact wrench on the crank bolt. Trusty HD floor jack with wood blocks is holding up the engine.

Timing belt looks old but in good shape. Timing marks line up, so no belt jump. Rockers look and feel good, and rotating the engine by hand didn't yield any unusual resistance (plugs out). Inside of engine looks and smells very clean for 132K+ miles.

So ... likely either it's a rod, or my hope, a valve seat dropped but hasn't broken yet so it is slapping between the valve and the head. Time will tell ... or other ideas/experiences?

Using an inspection mirror, read the head's casting number from its back side (just under the cover's rail). Very tempted to order a rebuilt head right now, even before getting the old one off.

Compared to the RAV4.1 with the 3SFE (last valve job I did), this SPI's timing belt is very easy to get to! Nice.

The oil pan is nicely exposed from below. I haven't search the site yet, but is it possible to service (replace) the crank, rods, and bearings, and to hone the cylinders, with the block still in the car? That would save a lot of work!
 
#10 ·
for the service manual go to autozone thats where i got mine they had 1 in stock. im pretty sure you can get to the crank rods and bearings with the motor still in the car but not sure how honing it would work out. i know everyone here will tell you "its toast scrap it and get a zetec" but there has been some spis that after dropping the valve seat were still reuseable it just depends on what the cylinders look like and if thres any damamage to the head. if the head is ok except for the valve seat you may be able to get away with just replacing the valve seats with the revised ones instead of purchasing a whole new head the ones on ebay are just a used oem head with the new seats put in it
 
#11 ·
Slowly but surely

Thanks -- will try Autozone for the manual.

Rebuilt head, with new and improved seats, on order. Will drop the oil pan after getting the head off, to see what's up in there! [scratch]

Exhaust manifold disconnected, but one stud in the center won't come out all the way (odd -- screws out easily, then seizes); have it soaking with WD-40. Now glad I had bought that Torx socket set not too long ago.

EGR valve and pipe out. Only one little flake of shiny metal in it, but might have come from the disintegrated tube-to-exhaust manifold gasket.

Double-checked all the lifters -- work fine.

Fuel injectors are resisting removal; swollen o-rings I'd guess. Fuel injector rail and hose look pristine, with Ford tag, so were likely replaced recently.
 
#12 ·
just pull the 2 bolts where the fuel rail mounts to the manifold then grab ahold of the rail and give it a good pull and try and rock the injectors back and forth in the manifold a little bit and it should pop out. if you think youll get to it tonight i can go find my haynes manual and see what it says for head removal
 
#13 ·
Oh Sh**!

Yep, twisting them, vertically, had them going before they got stuck. A search here yielded a suggestion of using WD-40. I gave each a goodly shot, and after ten minutes or so of soaking, came back and twisted them some more. They worked their way out nicely! After wiping off the injectors I now have the whole rail assembly pulled out of the way, but covered in a clean plastic newspaper delivery bag for safe keeping. Surprising that I didn't need to discharge the fuel pressure!

Then the timing belt came off -- interesting eccentric/cam design to the tensioner.

Then after removing the four hold-down bolts, the throttle body wouldn't budge. A wood chisel and a whack separated its stuck gasket.

Then, looked straight down the huge intake manifold ... and the "oh sh**" moment, large, shiny silverish chunks of metal in the bottom.

Pulled the very long but small headed intake to block bolts, and have the intake hanging. Used a piece of wire to help support the exhaust, via the power steering pump bracket.

Head almost off, probably after dinner. Looking down the #1 and #4 spark plug holes showed the very carboned but oily tops of their pistons, and no shiny stuff.
 
#14 ·
Oh, and another thing

One of the (manual) shifter cables is shredded, where it passed under the EGR valve. Is this a common problem point? Easy to replace, especially with the engine apart/out?
 
#15 ·
im sure youll find torn up pistons at the least if its been ran. what you see in the intake may be the valve seat, but until the heads off itll be hard to know what other damage there may be. post pics if ya can. hopefully its saveable. that cable should be a easy fix with eveything apart you should have room to run a new one i would think
 
#16 ·
And we have a winner ...

And it is the #3, yes #3 cylinder! [bigcry]

Yes, I have pics and will post when I am allowed to. Need 25 posts, being a newbie on this site.

Cylinders are all fine though, but both the head and piston in #3 are toast. Not nearly as bad as some pics I've seen, due to the engine not being run much after the seat dropped, but not as mild as the best case scenario.

So rebuilding the short block is in order. I'm likely to pull the block out instead of trying to work from underneath. That will also allow me to take the block to my machine shop for boiling out and honing, and checking for cracks.

I'll need a "new" piston and rod. The piston's a partial dome-top design -- if you have a spare OEM SPI (~2001) piston/rod (stock bore) in perfect shape, please PM me with your price (shipped to KS) and e-mail address so that I can send you a pic of my piston tops, for comparison.

After a long battle, a shower and a tube of Neosporin are in order. [facepalm]
 
#17 ·
pm mikebontoft i think he dicided to part out his spi motor instead of selling it to be rebuilt. i know hes not keeping the spi hes going v8 and i have his trans in my bedroom lol
 
#18 ·
yup I got em..... lemme work on a price. You'll need the rod with it too as they normally bend them. And the bore needs a slight hone on it (usually)
 
#19 ·
Gotta love it!

Great! These forums are wonderful -- I'm a member of five different ones now, I think.

Yes, piston and rod. I'll be putting new rings and bearings throughout.

When you can, please post (or somehow send me?) a pic of the top of the piston. I'm seeing different piston-tops in various places, including eBay.
 
#20 ·
yeah I'll post one right now:

number 3 is the second from the left, I don't think any metal even hit that one :). I'll clean it up, make it look pretty new though since I still have to remove it. I'll do that tomorrow.


close up of the bad piston but that should help for the pattern. It's out of an 05/2002 model.
 
#21 ·
Exhaust stud removal

A hanging detail from yesterday -- the stuck exhaust manifold stud. It unscrewed easily, part way, using a small female Torx socket, but then seized. Soaking it repeatedly with WD-40, and backing it in and out over an hour or so finally freed it. Because all the other studs were out, it was important to support the weight of the manifold by hand so as not to stress the bolt. With the stud out, I then tied the manifold up to the power steering bracket, as described above, to take the weight off the header pipe. The stud looked normal after it was out -- I was expecting to see lots of corrosion. [???:)]
 
#22 ·
Parts is parts

Creeping up on those 25 posts needed, apparently, for posting pics here ...

I'm otherwise busy today, but have started researching/pricing parts. Finding the correct replacement piston might be more involved than first thought. I'm seeing at least two different dome shapes, and also two different ring landing widths for one of the rings. Due to other my time commitments I probably can't resolve this one in my head tonight, but do hope to start ordering the obvious parts like water and oil pump, etc.

I want to replace the fuel filter too (that will relieve the pressure!), but am seeing two different types. The Fram G8018 likely the correct one? And where is it installed? It's not in the fuel line under the hood; I hope I don't have to drop the tank -- that's not a fun job. [shameful]
 
#23 ·
Yankin' the engine?

A member is selling me his non-2001 Workshop Manuals -- thanks!

Just located the fuel filter, under the right-side passenger's seat-back. Looks like the Fram one mentioned above.

But am thinking now about the procedure for pulling the engine. I will be replacing the clutch too.

Originally I'm sure the engine and transaxle were installed from below. I'm thinking it would be best to instead separate the engine from the trans, in place, and to lift the block up and out (I have a cherry picker). Any experiences otherwise?

I might not even need to take the hood off -- it props up nicely.
 
#24 ·
I believe mine (actually my wife's) started doing this too. I started it up right after thanksgiving dinner to take my family out to celebrate getting this car back road worthy (after I had to sell my 5.0 t-bird and let my '07 mustang go). Talk about taking the wind right out of our sails immediately.

A couple of questions if I may -
I've basically left it parked aside from pulling the valve cover and checking a few things while running before I researched it online to find out this common problem. It's loud, but it does quiet down and almost go away, but then come back most of the time. I'm assuming it probably is this problem or is it constantly loud and obnoxious?

The car was due for an oil change (which I was going to take care of Friday as I had just replaced plugs/wires, and a few worn tires). I had just about finished running a tank with lucas injector cleaner through it and was about ready to fill it up when I started it and this happened. I'm wondering if a bunch of junk just broke loose from the cleaner. Who am I kidding though, my gut says its this and its got 90,000 miles. Talk about horrible timing though. From 3 cars to walking lol.

I will say though, all 4 plugs are fine (sounds like its coming from #4), and I peaked in each cylinder through the SP hole and everything seemed okay.
 
#26 ·
My gut too says bad news for you. If you are capable, pull the head. Or find someone with a scope to put through the spark plug holes. Pulling the throttle body is fairly easy, then look straight down close to a foot into the intake to look for metal chunks. But pulling the head is the ultimate test.
 
#27 ·
Parts is parts 2

Rebuilt head arrives tomorrow, and I just placed an order for new:

water pump
oil pump
serpentine belt
timing set
thermostat
spark plugs
head bolts
pcv valve
fuel filter
air filter
cabin air filter
crankcase breather element

and a couple of new openers for the trunk. Plus a couple of other parts for another car. Just under $300, but a good chunk of that was shipping from a bunch of different places.

My plan is to pull the block this coming weekend, and then after I and my machine shop go through it, to order the internal parts. I'm not finding my favorite gasket set (full engine rebuild) from Fel-Pro though -- have posted a question to the more general tech topics.

Any opinions on the full rebuild gasket sets from other manufacturers, specifically for the SPI?
 
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