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Think I figured out the shuddering when starting from a stop...can't believe it

66K views 401 replies 94 participants last post by  narkotskyb 
#1 ·
So I've had more issues with the shuddering than I could even explain, and it all started with the TSB for the transmission update. Since that point, it's shuddered mostly every time I start from a stop. It's obnoxious, and makes the car feel cheap and crappy when people are riding in it. I've had it in the shop probably 3-4 times for this issue and every time they've said "It's supposed to act like that" and that the computer displays no errors.

So what did I do today? Turned off Traction Control. The second I turned it off, the shuddering from a stop no longer happened. I drove my 15 minute commute to work without a *single* shudder. The shifts were smooth, the starts and stops were smooth, and even mashing the gas when going into a corner from a stop or slow roll didn't make the car buck around like it was having a stroke.

Turn it back on? And the shuddering happened the very next light. Turned it back off, and no more shuddering.

Is it possible that this issue is somehow related to the Traction Control module initiating when it doesn't need to? I have lighter wheels on the car than stock (Sparco Assetto 18), but didn't have an issue with this until the TSB update. The lighter wheels might fool the computer into thinking it's losing traction (since there's less friction and resistance on the drive shaft), but I really can't postulate an answer beyond that.

For those of you with "Shuddering" issues, please help me test this by just disabling the Traction Control and driving like you normally would. If it's gone (or at least severely reduced), post back and let me know. Maybe Ford needs to issue a recall for the *CORRECT* part in the car this time.
 
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#127 ·
Even if they messed up; who really cares? It's not an issue to have a company mess up as long as they fix their problems (holds true for people as well). Recalls are good things. Expecting absolutely no problems for something as complex as a completely new machine (car, computer, whatever) is not something I'm personally prepared to do. I'm hoping for it, but I won't blame a company for having issues. Where I can blame a company is if they don't fix their issue, or worse, if they deny there's a problem. In my book, that's the worst thing a company can do.

I personally can't relate to the issues you guys are having with the transmission because a bought a manual (hehehe), but a good example is a power supply I had bought for my computer a while back. It broke. I got good support from the company, and because of this I won't scratch the company from my book when the time comes to buy another one.

The fact that dealers have been telling people that this is expected behavior is unacceptable. However, the fact that customer support from Ford is on this forum is a good thing. That said, pardon me, but I'll remain skeptical to see much changes even if customer support sends this higher in the chain.
 
#128 ·
That's exactly the problem. The regional customer service managers are saying the same basic thing, that "It's meant to work like this". It's malarkey.

I just got off the phone with Ford customer service. I was supposed to have my conference call with a "subject matter expert" in the engineering department on the matter and, what do you know, he couldn't make the meeting. I ended up talking to a different regional service manager that said, "He told me it's supposed to be like that". I'm super surprised. [thumbd]

Either way, I told her that a TSB actually existed to even fix this issue and then she said, "Oh...well would you like me to schedule an appointment to get that performed?". It's as if they don't really care to research an issue and just spout that line because it appeases most people...but then when caught in the lie they do as little as possible to make the customer happy. Even worse? The dealership told me the other day that they plugged in the computer and didn't get an error code, so didn't do anything more. I asked why they didn't physically check out any of the parts I said were potentially problematic and the service manager *literally* said, verbatim, "We did what was required of us".

I suggested they do more than what was required of them if they ever wanted their customers to be satisfied with their work, and took my car home. If all you do is what's required of you, you're not doing enough. He should be ashamed of himself for even saying that.
 
#129 ·
Dang, I was foolishly expecting you to receive better service and get somewhere with the engineer. [?|]
 
#131 ·
So far, TSC has improved my driving experience as well. As I stated before, my DCT hasn't had a whole lot of issues, usually it's pretty tame, but the TCS trick has certainly smoothed out shifts and improved throttle response throughout the powerband.

I do have 12b37 applied, and like hotleadsingerguy, before the update my car was smooth as silk and the DCT behaved much better, only after the update have I had any issues.
 
#132 ·
Oh I forgot to mention, she mentioned at the end of the conversation (after I told her the engineer was incorrect, yet again) that when the dealerships say the car is "Running as expected" it's because the engineering department does know there's an issue with the transmission as it currently is and are working on an update, but as of right now don't have a confirmed timeframe of when it might be available.

So she tried to appease me by saying that "[a fix is in the works]" after telling me that there's no need for a fix because everything is running perfectly.

I'm really not sure why people don't seem to believe Ford is telling the truth...
 
#133 ·
Oh I forgot to mention, she mentioned at the end of the conversation (after I told her the engineer was incorrect, yet again) that when the dealerships say the car is "Running as expected" it's because the engineering department does know there's an issue with the transmission as it currently is and are working on an update, but as of right now don't have a confirmed timeframe of when it might be available.

So she tried to appease me by saying that "[a fix is in the works]" after telling me that there's no need for a fix because everything is running perfectly.

I'm really not sure why people don't seem to believe Ford is telling the truth...
I agree that it's BS. But, did she say "running as expected", or "running perfectly"? There is a difference...

"Running perfectly" would be a flat out lie. "Running as expected", not so much.
 
#139 ·
I would trade any kind of shudder over the lack of responsiveness or lack of power with my car. I can deal with some shudder, it's no big deal for me...but man, I want the damm thing to move when I press the gaz pedal and get rid of the ridiculous over revving and lard ass lag.

I tried the T/C trick 3 night in a row and its not just doing anything for me. Am I to understand that the lack of power I have ''could'' be a contaminated tranny? My driveway is clean and I dont see any kind of oil marks on the ground.

Anyone care to explain this to me in common english so I can relay this info to my dealer...if, he ever wants to see my car....
 
#153 ·
Well Focuses since 2008 have been using the PowerShift transmission (dual-clutch tranny, but wet clutches), but this is the first dry-clutch dual-clutch system. All dual-clutches have the slight shudder when engaging the clutch, but that's because it's basically a computer-assisted manual.

This is different. The tranny is crap in these cars and it's ruining the clutches along with it. This week I'm going to tell the regional manager that either the car gets fixed the way it should have been months ago, or they're going to have to buy back the car. I've dealt with this problem *far* too long already and I'm 5 minutes from trading it in for something else...even if I take a big hit.
 
#143 ·
I have to agree with you on this as I recall seeing post about some peeps in here that are quite satisfied with the throttle response of their respective Focus's.

What I am trying to find out is the cause of this lag. Is it because the tranny is contaminated is some way?
 
#145 ·
Agreed as well, thus far, my Focus has been pretty competent. Takes laying into the pedal a bit before it really wakes up, certainly is lackluster if I don't give it much input, but it's not bad. And I'm used to a fully-bolted and tuned Mazdaspeed 3 that was putting 300hp to the wheels, so... if I'm satisfied losing half the power, I feel like it's not a half bad car, lol.
 
#150 ·
I tried turning TCS off for about 20 miles of suburban traffic driving today and about 80 miles of mostly highway + some streets driving on Thursday. There's definitely a difference in feel. Thursday I could sense a difference but couldn't really put my finger on what it was exactly. Today though my car felt like it has better throttle response with the TCS off. There was none of the occasional slight bogging I get after a period of driving gingerly for max MPGs and it just ran and shifted real well. Of course my engine/car running better today could be partly the result of the cool, dense humid air as it had been raining a bit today and the temps. were in the low 50s F. On Thursday it was much warmer, drier and sunnier. Continuing experiments tomorrow. [burnout]
 
#149 ·
It should not negatively effect the mileage unless you're constantly engaging it with full throttle standing starts or something else that already would destroy mileage.

Oh and its a Ford Focus, not a "Ford Fucus".
 
#154 ·
Oh, and now my car shudders with the TCS on or off. Not in the same way though...because now the shudder is definitely coming from the transmission. Fairly certain the first clutch is ruined. I'm supposed to be called tomorrow to talk about getting the 11-12-13 TSB applied, but now it looks like I'll have to get the clutch(s) replaced along with it.

What a piece of crap this car has turned into. It went, quickly, from one of my favorite cars to something I'm completely embarrassed to have people in. Every single person that's been in my car over the past few months has verbally asked me what was wrong with it.

This is what I get for making the dumb decision to buy domestic. No wonder our auto industry is in the state that it's in. If one more service manager tells me (verbatim), "We did what was required" I'm going to smack myself. After specifically saying, "You don't go above what's required of you to please your customers?" and getting the same response ("We did what was required"), I'm blown away.
 
#156 ·
Oh, and now my car shudders with the TCS on or off. Not in the same way though...because now the shudder is definitely coming from the transmission. Fairly certain the first clutch is ruined. I'm supposed to be called tomorrow to talk about getting the 11-12-13 TSB applied, but now it looks like I'll have to get the clutch(s) replaced along with it.
Let us know if you have any luck getting the clutches replaced or what to tell them to look for to get it done. I'm 99% certain both of mine are toast. The dealer performed the relearn procedure on mine and it helped some, but it still grinds like mad.

It's always exciting to accelerate in the Focus, you never quite know what will happen. My tires have barked from 20 mph before with some nice great clutch drop. Everyday, a new adventure.
 
#155 ·
I tried disabling the TCS system months ago when I was experiencing the lag and shuddering issues and it didn't make a difference. It didn't change the loss of power issue while going around corners either.

Since the DCT has been OK lately I tried it again with no noticeable difference.

Maybe TCS is broken on my vehicle?

Anyway...Ford, please fix the MFT climate control issue soon because I really want to get RID OF THIS DAMN CAR while it still works!
 
#160 ·
Hey folks,

Just a reminder that I'd like VINs and 12b37 flash status for those of you who are experiencing success with turning traction control off. I'm compiling information to send to our engineering team and your information is quite valuable. Send me a PM with your info and I'll add it to my list.

Thanks everyone!
Crystal [:)]
 
#163 ·
My updates:

I drove from San Diego to San Gorgonia wilderness over the weekend for a hike with TCS off. No issues with shuddering, shifts are fine & most importantly NO burning clutch smell that was present on my previous runs through mountains. Since I had DST I dismissed it as a fluke before but now it all comes together.
Besides no shifting issues I also got an overall 35 miles/gallon fuel economy. That's going over 300 hundred miles of driving, gaining loosing about 8000 feet of elevation & going mostly 70-80 miles an hour. In essence better then I ever had.
Now to the bad part - well I got a flat tire:) Nah seriously - I think 12B37 screwes up TCS soo much that under certain conditions - like in my case serious mountain driving - it burns clutches. I'm basically going to go back to dealer and have them check for TSB 11-12-13 since one of the diagnostics for that TSB is testing for clutch slippage. I am pretty much convinced that my clutches are burned.
 
#164 ·
I think 12B37 screwes up TCS soo much that under certain conditions - like in my case serious mountain driving - it burns clutches. I'm basically going to go back to dealer and have them check for TSB 11-12-13 since one of the diagnostics for that TSB is testing for clutch slippage. I am pretty much convinced that my clutches are burned.
I think you make a good point here. Others have mentioned that leaking trans fluid can cause the shuddering issue, and that is a valid concern. However, even without leaking fluid, "burning" a clutch will glaze the surface of the clutch friction material, which will also cause shuddering.
 
#167 ·
I don't need an OBDII scanner to tell me that my clutch is slipping. haha

Appointment is in 2 hours! [wiggle]

EDIT: Only thing I'm worried about is that I don't have the fluid leaking on the outside of my bell housing...
 
#169 ·
I don't need an OBDII scanner to tell me that my clutch is slipping. haha

Appointment is in 2 hours! [wiggle]

EDIT: Only think I'm worried about is that I don't have the fluid leaking on the outside of my bell housing...
I'd certainly hope not. But having logged data goes a lot further than what we claim is happening when we bring this to the attention of dealerships. My dealership would probably still dismiss the logs too.
 
#173 · (Edited)
It's taking a lot out of me to not curse right now. The dealership kept me waiting in the waiting room for an hour, when he finally came back he said they test drove it (without me, despite my request) and all of their diagnostics came back as normal. [rant][chair][boxface][gunfire][?|][:(!][scream][mad]

This is my most convenient dealership, but apparently also the most incompetent. I'm sick of having to request time off for this and get absolutely nothing accomplished.

EDIT: I'll be damned if I have to buy a new clutch in 1 year for a car that I don't even have the ABILITY to drop the clutch, chirp gears, burn out, etc.

 
#174 ·
It's taking a lot out of me to not curse right now. The dealership kept me waiting in the waiting room for an hour, when he finally came back he said they test drove it (without me, despite my request) and all of their diagnostics came back as normal. [rant][chair][boxface][gunfire][?|][:(!][scream][mad]

This is my most convenient dealership, but apparently also the most incompetent. I'm sick of having to request time off for this and get absolutely nothing accomplished.

Prato,

Check your PM's bro.
 
#178 ·
Good morning everyone!

Just a reminder that I'm here to help. I'm gathering VINs from people who are happy with turning Traction Control off as it relates to their DCT's performance, so if you haven't already, please send me a PM with your VIN and whether or not you've had the 12B37 TSB applied to your vehicle.

If you're experiencing any other issues, I'm happy to jump in and assist with those as well; send me a PM and I'll get to work.

Thanks!
Crystal
 
#181 ·
I'll try to post an updated video of the noises and slipping my transmission has been experiencing for the last week or so (severely worse than before).

But I'm very close to just purchasing these parts and doing the repair myself:


Note: The old clutch might be shipped to Michigan with a big "FU" written on it... or through one of the dealership's windows. I haven't really decided yet. When questioned, I'll deny everything - because "Why would I need a new clutch? It's working 'as expected.'"

EDIT: I'm not actually going to do the latter... I think.
 
#182 ·
Going tomorrow for a 'investigation'. Specifically mentioned TSB 11-12-13. Asked what kind of tests will be run and the test list looks right on the money. So hopefully if there is a seal leak then TSB will fix it. If not then hopefully we'll get some quantifiable data on why TCS is making so much difference in driving characteristics of my car.
 
#183 ·
Going tomorrow for a 'investigation'. Specifically mentioned TSB 11-12-13. Asked what kind of tests will be run and the test list looks right on the money.
Good luck. I took my car in and they said they checked the shift characteristics and everything operates within the "expected limits"... whatever those are.
 
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