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Ford Focus ST vs WRX vs GTi vs Volvo C30 vs Civic SI vs Veloster Turbo vs Mazdaspeed 3

42K views 93 replies 28 participants last post by  aernan 
#1 ·
This chart is still a work in progress, but here's what I have so far.
Note how much torque and hp the Focus ST has across the rpm range!
With these performance stats, along with the fact that it has 5 usable seats and great utility? I think the Focus ST will be THE car to have in this price range!
 
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#4 ·
+1. I'll take an all-wheel drive car with a mechanical limited slip diff all day over FWD cars, at that price. I'm surprised to see the absence of the GT-86 on this chart too, given the random inclusion of the Civic Si, which is...kind of a different car compared to the rest, being a two-door coupe.
 
#6 ·
hopefully the new ST proves to be a reliable powerplant, something that Subaru does not have. Yes they're fast and yes you can modify them for great power, but they have more than just a few engine problems. They have had issues with both the standard WRX and STI with piston ring failures at an alarmingly high level bone stock from the factory related to insufficient cooling (oil flow) and poor materials. The misfiring and detonation issue is another concern leading to this problem and its an issue that Subaru has had since the last generation of WRX's. Its enough of a problem that several tuner mags make quick mention of it, while saying its the greatest thing since sliced bread in the same breath. Take look at several of the WRX forums around and you may come to a similar conclusion, also keep in mind that relatively very few WRX's are sold nation wide.

I for one am looking forward to the ST in a big way. I would like to know more information on the possible RS Focus as well. Either one of those would make a fine addition to my garage.
 
#14 ·
hopefully the new ST proves to be a reliable powerplant, something that Subaru does not have. Yes they're fast and yes you can modify them for great power, but they have more than just a few engine problems. They have had issues with both the standard WRX and STI with piston ring failures at an alarmingly high level bone stock from the factory related to insufficient cooling (oil flow) and poor materials. The misfiring and detonation issue is another concern leading to this problem and its an issue that Subaru has had since the last generation of WRX's. Its enough of a problem that several tuner mags make quick mention of it, while saying its the greatest thing since sliced bread in the same breath. Take look at several of the WRX forums around and you may come to a similar conclusion, also keep in mind that relatively very few WRX's are sold nation wide.
I think this is a misrepresentation of the situation as far as the EJ25 motor goes. Yes, there is a known issue with it, in which some people experience piston ringland failure and detonation, (in cyls 1 and 4, iirc). Most of the community has isolated this issue to being due to a poor factory tune, and mostly present in 08 and early 09 models. I haven't heard of any '11 or '12 GR WRXs or STIs on IWSTI or NASIOC having that particular problem yet. And, the last statement there should be backed up with facts if you're going to make it at all, as up hee, the WRX and STi are extremely popular cars. I see WRXs here more often than I see the Golf. I live in the same neighborhood as three GD chassis STis alone. [giddy]

But, the chart and OP honestly doesn't seem to have an unbiased representation in mind, so I guess the thread 'is what it is'.
 
#5 ·
+1. I'll take an all-wheel drive car with a mechanical limited slip diff all day over FWD cars, at that price. I'm surprised to see the absence of the GT-86 on this chart too, given the random inclusion of the Civic Si, which is...kind of a different car compared to the rest, being a two-door coupe.
Did you look at the chart?
Sure, it has 12 more HP, but only for a short bit. Torque's lower than the ST, and it only hits that max torque number, 26 lbft lower than the ST, for a short time. Meanwhile, the ST has 270 torque available from 2000 rpms up to 5000. More torque and more power most of the time.
HP sells cars, torque wins races.
Also, the Focus Titanium gas a better skid pad rating (although I didn't list it on the chart) than the WRX. The ST will be even better than that!
That limited slip diff on the WRX is useless in the corners. It's a center diff. All it does is vary the power between the front and back, which is great for bad weather, but useless in the corners.
Plus, torque vectoring control IS electronic. It's also, in many ways, better than a traditional limited slip diff. By actually braking the inside wheel and applying power outside, it can "twist" the car more.

Anyway, the Subaru/Toyota/Scion will make it to the list eventually. I've been adding a car or two per day.
 
#12 ·
That's still a heavy car for not having AWD.
Subaru addressed their lean issues with this year and I used my Access tuner stage 1 reflash to help the STI and the datalogs show no detonation.
On a tight twisty track a FWD car can be vetter than an AWD car but AWD makes even a so-so driver good,you need to be a very good driver to get the FWD around the same track. I autocrossed my '93 Mitsu Eclipse AWD and it was much easier to drive at the limits then my fwd Type R which required alot more attention.
The AWD has a big margin for error and is easy to correct when it gets loose and it's a true all weather car since you can track it one day,hit the dirt the next day and then it still can get you to the ski resorts with no issues. If it's your primary car in an area that sees snow regularly AWD is a must for me

For the money I'd still take the WRX but that said the ST is still a pretty sweet car and I like it in red.
 
#15 ·
I honestly don't know which i would choose. I have the experience with the Focus through my SVT but the AWD of the WRX is very appealing. I must say the ST is a very nice car and i have been seeing the new focus a lot more recently. It would be a very hard choice for me.
 
#16 ·
I like unbiased thinking since there's alot to consider when buying a car and I think you limit yourself just driving one brand and not trying out others plus you can appear ignorantt on car forums real quick when you just tout one brand. I was partial to Mitsubishi through the '90s but I never turned down the knowledge or opportunity to drive another car if it was presented to me.

I'm sure I'll take a test drive in the ST for shits and grins so I can give a genuine opinion but I'm not going to buy one.
 
#17 ·
Kevin on here has a WRX, he babies it to get 24mpg, (with quite a bit of highway.) If the ST can pull 28mpg on a mixed tank, then it's a decent advantage.

You don't need AWD in winter, I spent last winter in Frisco, CO snowboarding, and my focus did just fine, we would drive it over Vail Pass on powder days, you can't get much more wild than that. For me, FWD = easier to drive on a not known twisty road. (Gas = understeer, brake = oversteer) better mileage, less maintenance, etc.
 
#18 ·
I don't think I'll be bragging about my MPGs at the track. It's about who finishes first .
Yes,you don't NEED AWD in winter but when it's at 10" or so AWD will ensure you get there and much less to worry about and try to get fwd going on a slope from a standstill.

I got 28mpg hwy from my STI on a trip from NM up to Denver but around town it's in the 19s but that's why I bought the Focus.
 
#24 ·
I don't think anyone said it was a fast car. [giddy] More like a decently made/good looking one. Married couple of mine like it so much, they have two. One in gray, and one in that insane orange color.

I wish I'd had an AWD car two winters ago. Getting dumped on 2+ feet at a time in snow just...sucks all around.
 
#22 ·
As far as winter driving is concerned, I've driven my 2000 Focus through blizzards before. I'll admit, going up a steep hill was difficult, but I also had old all season tires on, which had very little traction.
AWD is better in the snow, but unless you're trying to speed through it like a madman, you don't "need" it.


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#23 ·
Yes,you don't need it everywhere but up in the mountains it guarantees you can get around. I lived up there with fwd and AWD for 15 years and the AWD got places where the fwd definetly couldn't go. I guess if you live in the flatlands it's not that big of a deal tho'.
 
#26 ·
obviously im biased. BUT i absolutely LOVE my car. the new wrx is insane. intake and full turbo back and tune and im at 300whp/330wtq. my car in a straight line rapes porsches and makes mustangs look foolish.

that being said, i do autox this car, i did it once with my well set up focus. i'll take my focus back on a small track any day. but my wrx is just as good, it does push in tight corners. also to say the AWD doesn't help on the track thats goofy, my awd shines on a track.

btw the mistakes on your chart, 0-60 for wrx in 4.7 seconds, also we have 17x8 wheels stock
 
#28 ·
obviously im biased. BUT i absolutely LOVE my car. the new wrx is insane. intake and full turbo back and tune and im at 300whp/330wtq. my car in a straight line rapes porsches and makes mustangs look foolish.
I know the feeling. [woot] Those Porsche guys get really bothered.

Actually the WRX is quicker to 60mph than the STI since it's got a taller 2nd gear and seems to deal with more mods and less issues and considerably cheaper.

And with it's rakish rear window I thought the HB Focus has a slight resemblence to the WRX instead of the flat back hatches ala Mazda3. I think that's what made me attracted to the Focus initially. Is it my imagination? Maybe



 
#29 ·
It would be a tough choice between the Veloster Turbo and the ST. I'd like the ST for the technology, and I'd like the Veloster because it's light and the base model is a freaking BLAST to drive.
 
#32 ·
Mako shark, right.

To be honest, I think the HB '12 Focus is loads better-looking than the HB WRX or STi from the current generation of the GR chassis. By no small margin either.
 
#39 ·
I hope the ST does 0-6 in the high 5's. I also hope the ST gets close to 35 MPG or better. The stopping should be close to the Ti I would think (is the ST suspension package that much different than the Ti wheel/brake/suspension upgrade?).
The ST most definitly has bigger brakes all around, the rest of the suspension is probably a bit better. Stopping distance should be top of its class as long as the ST doesn't weight too much more in the front with the added turbo.
 
#41 ·
As far as bias, remember that a few months ago, I was seriously considering ending my wait for the ST and getting a WRX. It was sitting down and comparing the cars that lead me to decide to wait for the ST. After seeing it in action in person, I think I made the right choice. I tried to use nothing but facts for this sheet so it could be an honest comparison for anyone looking at one of these cars.


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