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SVT springs vs FRPP kit; comfort, ride & handling

20K views 106 replies 23 participants last post by  karmakc 
#1 · (Edited)
Hi,
I just got my tax return and I want to put the $ into my car.

I've got a 2004 ZX3 with just over 50k miles :) and in many ways I find the suspension to be satisfactory. I happen to drive over a stretch of highway that is 20 miles long and is a twisty bumpy road, I love it!

The deal is that I'd like less body roll, and more control over the car through the corners. The current suspension is still good and probably will last me a good while yet. So at this time I'm contemplating my options.

The SVT 3000ZX3 package makes a lot of sense, I've driven SVT Foci in the past and loved the dynamics of the suspension and the BRAKES. I'll probably get to the brakes later on however, my focus is getting the right shoes (tires) and suspension.

So getting to the meat of the question: What is the difference between the FRPP and SVT suspension in terms of ride and handling on a zx3?

I know the FRPP is a larger drop, does that mean the ride will be harsher as well? Also, many people in the forums have indicated that the FRPP settles in to a 2" drop rather than the stated 1.5" drop.

Ideally, people who have had both the SVT and FRPP set ups are the qualified individuals I would like to hear from.

My aim is to remain on the 16" stock rims and shoe them with Continental DW's. Any thoughts on those tires would be much appreciated as well.

Thanks![loveff]
 
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#48 ·
I do not have ABS or power anything. Just a big motor and a nice, leather wrapped, steering wheel :) ...no frills!

You can get the SVT replacement shocks and the FRPP springs for $320 ish delivered from Tousley and, like I said, it's nice just a quick rebound due to less travel.

I was going to get Conti DWS tires last month but they were on backorder "indefinitely" so confirm that they are in-stock before you buy. I'm happy with the S-Drives though and they seem to have a nice tread and a nice stiff sidewall.

I am looking for a new rear sway and I may just look for a used one as they are cheap and don't really wear out. I would like to get a 22mm bar from sway-a-way. I want a little more oversteer and I understand that will help.

Take what's left over in your tax return and get the Ballance Shaft Delete. It's cheap, easy to install and adds power and oil capacity (1qt!). I think $25, some RTV and a couple hours is all you need.

Don't forget the allignment too!

Glad to see you doing all of this to your ride...it's a lot of fun for a little money!
 
#49 ·
I see, so the other option is to get just the FRPP springs with the SVT dampers. Is that what you got? I should call Steve back and talk to him about that. What, if any, disadvantages might this set up create. If the shocks are made for the SVT setup, does it inhibit the longevity of the dampers/shocks?

What are the relevant advantages of getting the BSD done? I know that it reduces the rotational mass, possibly making the engine free-er revving..

The Conti DWS's are available, just checked...

Messing with the car is fun and I'm liking each change more and more :)
 
#50 ·
Yeah, $320 for SVT shocks and Ford Racing springs and it gives you a 1.5" drop. The SVT shocks are just fine for the FRPP springs as they have more dampening than stock. Steve will know exactly what you want.

The advantages of the BSD are exactly what you stated plus you add 1qt of oil which allows your engine to run a little cooler.
 
#54 ·
Poly bushings for the lower control arm? Don't waste your time and $ on that...those things are a PITA and it will cost more to have them removed/installed that it's worth. Poly bushings for the motor mounts are nice add and are very easy to install.

As for the kit, you do not need anything at all. It comes with new nuts/bolts and bushings. You may want to rent a spring compressor but it is not absolutely necessary. I used a jack to remove/install the rear springs (jack between the lower control arm and frame) and just muscled the front springs on. It's very easy to do yourself and no instructions are needed, just remove/replace.
 
#57 ·
Great, I will keep that in mind. Why won't it thread all the way?

I ordered the FRPP M-5560-zxm springs with the SVT damper set from Steve - who has consummate knowledge of the FoFo. All in all, costs $340ish with shipping. And I'm in the process of getting a SVT rear sway bar from a member for $55 w/shipping.

Not bad considering the bar is new and unused.
 
#60 ·
They are one and the same. They are the OEM SVT kits with rear sway bars. If you have a 2000-05 ZX3 or ZX5, you'll get a 0.5" drop without a degradation of ride.

While Amazon is a good place to buy these products, supporting the guys who support our forums is a better deal. You can get the M-3000-ZX3 kit for $247 + shipping via Tousley or Hillbish. Shipping costs depend on where you are. Talk to Tousley if you're in the central, mountain or west coast. Or Hillbish if you're on the eastern seaboard.

I just purchased the SVT dampers with 1.5" drop FRPP springs and a rear SVT sway bar for a total of 390 (shipping included). The bar was bought off of a FF member for a lot less than actual cost.

Good luck.
 
#59 ·
Not sure on the threads. It's either a shorter threaded shaft, a longer threaded nut or thicker sheetmetal or bushing. Either way, any method you use is acceptable. Personally, I would use the old nut.
 
#64 ·
http://www.focusfanatics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=143550

Check here and PM Geezer...he has the specs somewhere.

You will also probably need camber bolts. I would buy them now and have them just in-case the allignment shop needs them so you don't have to wait on parts. I think they're $20-25.
 
#67 ·
Go with SVT

Go with the SVT kit, you will be glad you did. I tried an aftermarket kit first that was a little lower than the SVT and hated every moment of it. Could not get the wheel alignment right no matter what i did, so tires only lasted about 10,000 miles, the ride was brutal. The SVT kit i know have in my 2000 ZX3 rides nice, handles good and i now have 100,000 miles on a set of 17" tires on SVT rims.[:)]
 
#68 ·
Look where the op live's at= Santa Cruz

Go with the SVT kit, you will be glad you did. I tried an aftermarket kit first that was a little lower than the SVT and hated every moment of it. Could not get the wheel alignment right no matter what i did, so tires only lasted about 10,000 miles, the ride was brutal. The SVT kit i know have in my 2000 ZX3 rides nice, handles good and i now have 100,000 miles on a set of 17" tires on SVT rims.[:)]
What aftermarket kit did you have? E-bay crap or what? Frpp's 1.5'' drop would work awesome where the op live's
 
#73 ·
I drive 60 miles a day on the freeway (~70-80mph). I fill up about every 5 days. I don't take notes on mpg but I just see what the total miles are when I fill up. Summer and Winter gas burns different too so you will usually see better mileage in the Summer...

I spent $5 on my DIY shifter and the exact same thing happened to my shift boot. Eventually I will replace the boot and lower the fulcrum on the shifter but for now I just took off the boot. Junk Yards and the classifieds on here will net you a new boot.
 
#76 ·
Found a leather boot with plastic ring intact. $25+shipping, not bad considering the item, when new is $45...

Any word on the mpg with the new plugs?

The weather will clear up enough for me to get the suspension install underway, this saturday. I B stoked :)

I've got two tires that have more wear than the other two, the previous owner never did the rotations - with the new suspension, I'm probably going to keep the old tires for a bit, and I'll move the newer tires to the rear and the older ones to the front.

The way I've had the tires behave with the older/less grippy tires at the rear in the wet has been hairy -- several fishtailing events even at low speeds...I figure the older tires, with the engine right over them, should wreak less havoc at low or medium speeds through the wet, however, I'm entirely unsure of their hydroplaning resistance...(sorry about the tangent, just wanted to get the words out)
 
#77 ·
Finally got the FRPP kit (1.5" drop with SVT dampers and rear SVT sway bar) installed in the car. It took an epic 5+ hours to install with help from someone who's done this before...I took the car for a brief spin, which included the twisty Western Dr along the Pacific Ocean in Santa Cruz and some straightaway blasts.

Amazingly, all the reviews of the suspension being harsh were unfounded, at least on the roads around here. There is barely any brake dive and the sway bar is doing its job. I've fallen in love with my car, again! All I need now is some new rubber and I'll be stoked for a long while. I'm not even sure if my car needs an alignment, it still tracks straight as an arrow, I'll probably get it checked before I make any tall claims though.

A big thank you to all the folks who've replied to this thread and guided me along the way. And huge props to crazyjess for making the install happen.
 
#78 ·
Have the front & rear toe set.


Get a 4 way alignment = to set your toe. Do the rear 1st, then the front & make sure the steering wheel is straight.
 
#79 ·
How she looks now:


After a second drive today, I realized how much stiffer the springs are. It definitely is bordering on harsh, however it is quite a different car altogether.

Only Fronts w/CrazyJess's car in the foreground:


Jesse's car has a 2" drop with Koni's. When we took my car out for a test drive, he was plenty amazed by the lack of sway and the shock/strut combo. I think he may be reconsidering his own set up.
 
#80 ·
Get the Allignment! You may not think you need it but, when you get it you will notice a difference.

BTW, my MPG # didn't turn out so well...not sure if it was a heavy foot last week or what but averaged 24.6 MPG. I'll check it again this week and report back.
 
#83 ·
Hey Homey,
I got the alignment. Good call on that. The specs were slightly off.

I bought the autolites but I have yet to install them. Let me know how this week's mpg turns. With gas prices going through the roof, I'd like save some cash one way or another...
 
#81 ·
hey karmakc, I am in a similar situation with the springs. I was planning on H&R springs but I am always considering other stuff. After you have had the setup for more than a couple of days is the setup just stiff or maybe too harsh. But the drop does look good on your car.
 
#82 ·
Post alignment and a few days of driving...



I've put approx 144 miles on the current set up. I also had an alignment done and I'm glad I did. The rear was out of whack and while they fixed the rear, the front also got sorted.

To answer your question, I had to ask myself what I was looking for in the suspension set up. I originally started looking at getting a better handling package that wouldn't sway as much as it does stock. My stock suspension only had 50k miles and is definitely still good, however, I live in a part of California that has twisty, windy roads all over the place and I've always wanted go-kart like handling on a car...I got very interested in the SVT kit due to its low cost and its mannerisms are amazing, known by all enthusiasts etc...

Then I realized, I may not be happy with just that kit and I heard more and more about the FRPP progressive springs/SVT dampers (aka FRPP kit)...and I ended up getting it plus a cheap (new) SVT rear sway bar from a member for a grand total of $400 including shipping and taxes.

With the alignment and suspension all settled, I have to be quite honest in saying, if you live anywhere there are cracked roads or expansion joints on the freeway, this set up may not be for you. It is a stiff, and exciting set up that has me grinning when the roads are smooth and sometimes grimacing when the roads are truly awful...however, I understand that it may take 1000+ miles of driving for the suspension to settle before I can give you a better judgement on the set up.

I'm very happy with the cornering ability, where with a stock suspension, if I was pushing the car on an on ramp, the car would fall into chronic understeer. Now the car tracks like its on rails with very little play at the back. I'm really impressed by the geometry and the car feels like a whole new animal. The lowered stance is taking a little getting used to but I don't see that being a problem.

I'm not sure how the roads in Iowa would be for a lowered car, that is something you'd have to evaluate for yourself...hit me up in a couple of weeks and I'll be able to give you a much more, indepth review.
 
#84 ·

Update:

After a few weeks of driving, I've come to realize that though the car is a little stiffer and the suspension travel is much less...the communication and control that I've gained was unimaginable before I got my FRPP kit installed.

The suspension has been set up with only a thicker rear sway bar (SVT) at the rear - the idea was to keep the car closer to a neutral handling set up rather than oversteer or excessive understeer. I believe upgrading the front sway bar would have increased the understeer.

I attack corners with aplomb and at curves where the stock set up would have fallen into chronic understeer, the FRPP now handles those like a champ with only the slightest hint of oversteer at the edge. However, I am certain that my handling is being held back by my tires as the rears only have 2/32" of tread left and fronts ~4/32".

Tire choices have come down to Continental DWS or Continental DW. Leaning towards the DW for the performance nature -- however I am slightly worried about the possibility of snow that I may or may not encounter...thus the chance of purchasing the Continental DWS.
 
#85 ·
Awesome! Glad you like it and I could help.

For tires I would also check out S-Drives. I got those and I really like them but I also have nothing to compare them to.

I need a sway bar now! I could use a little more control in the turns and much less push.

My MPG with the new plugs sucks right now so maybe don't go with the 103's and do a stock replacement plug.
 
#86 ·
Thanks for all of your help Homey!

I'm actually caught in between buying either Continental DWS or DW. I sometimes push my car very hard and I know the DW's are the performance tire of the bunch - however with the DWS - it gives me all weather (including snow) performance.

All I know is my tires are close to their "sell by" date. We've been getting some seriously heavy rain out here in Santa Cruz/Bay Area and I've be traversing the hills very gingerly due to the aquaplaning I've been experiencing as well as poor grip at the rear. In the dry, these tires are extremely responsive but the wet weather driving is definitely concerning.

As for the getting a rear sway bar - definitely get one. I knew ahead of time that putting a thicker front sway bar would increase the understeer/push so I left the stock one in.

I found a brand new unused SVT bar for sale of FF and got it for a steal. I can definitely control my car in the wet even if the rear tires suck but I probably wouldn't have as much control with out it.

Do you have a stock bar at least? If not, I have mine which I would be happy to part with :)
 
#88 ·
My car came with a rear sway bar...just need funds for an upgrade.

I'm averaging 26mpg with about 75% freeway driving and a heavy foot in town.

For $8 you might as well put the plugs in and try them. If you don't like them you can just put stock replacements back in it. The power is a little smoother with the plugs but I'm sure that's the case with any new plugs.
 
#91 ·
Gotcha! As you probably already know, the thicker the rear bar is, the more oversteer you're going to get. Go slow and steady for a neutral handling car.

What did you gap the 103's to? I believe the recommended is between .05 and .055 for a blend of performance and reliability.
 
#97 ·
Finally bit the bullet, and bought myself a set of Continental DW's from Tirerack.com
The icing on the cake is a rebate for an Nook simple Touch from Continental as a rebate.

I'll update you all when I've at least broken the tires in.
 
#99 ·
Continental DW tires rock!



I just got those tires put on yesterday, they are quiet and the steering response is nice.
I agree, the Continental Extreme Contact DW is whisper quiet and even with the stiffer suspension geometry and SVT rear sway bar, I still feel like I'm wafting in the clouds. Then again, I'm also driving around in the initial break in period --- so no real hard driving though I'm amazed by the grip from them vs my previous tires.

I'm pretty sure I love the way my car is right now - feels like the finished project that I somewhat projected I'd get about a year ago.
 
#98 ·
I just got those tires put on yesterday, they are quiet and the steering response is nice.
 
#101 ·
These last 5,000 miles on FRPP kit have been a revelation!
Obviously with a slightly less compliant shock combined with FRPP springs, the ride has been rougher both on the highway and in the city. The trade off for ride quality versus handling was a little more than I had expected. However, I'm not complaining any more.

It's a hoot to drive a car that is even more communicative than while stock. My commute is wonderful in every sense of the word as when in turns that had the inner right wheel lifting/nearly lifting, now the rear is communion with the front.

I point the car where I want to go, and there is little to no wag from the rear. Obviously, there are still limits to the handling, however I have yet to have the car's rear break away from me while trail braking or in the wet - this is mostly due to the rubber on the shoes.

I have yet to take the car to an AutoX course and plan to do so sometime in the near future. However, I can whole heartedly recommend the FRPP kit as so many before me have. I look forward to many more miles of funderful dynamics and twisty fun.
 
#102 ·
If you ever want a little more you can get the eibach sway bar kit there awesome together, i got mine with my prosystem plus and its great the rear bar gets 25mm and the front one is 21mm and together the corners are great if i can find them in the flat lands i would defiantly recomend them!!!:)
 
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