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Old 02-08-2013, 10:05 PM   #35
Lscman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jinstall View Post
Your still looking at a small portion of the picture and not the whole picture. You have to look at the complete manufacturing process of a hybrid compared to a normal IC engine. MPG is only part of the eco footprint, you have to look at the entire process. For $1000 I can run my Jeep off of used vegi oil, the same can be done with the Cruze and other diesels. Diesel will continue to be a more efficent IC engine than gasoline. It is also more friendly to tuning performance gains with slight electronic modifications. The EU has been proving this for years. This is why the Audi's have taking flak for years in motorsports. Clean diesels have been around for a while and will continue to increase. Owning a diesel is a long term commitment, and it does pay for itself when you own one. Mine has.
Time out, please. You have no idea what portion of the picture I'm looking at. You make bold, global statements about the superiority of diesel powerplants that have no merit beyond farm tractors and commercial rigs. Your argument is simply not supported by objective, empirical data (facts). Have you compared the EPA ratings for cruze gas vs diesel? Clearly not. A Chevy Cruze diesel is not a Jeep CRD SUV. The EPA tests are based upon actual control testing instead of generalities, hype, assumptions and guessing. EPA results are the best that consumers have to go by. Again, the Cruze diesel is not an F350 dualie tow vehicle or a commercial truck that sits idling for 12hrs in a truckstop every night. Cruze diesel is not a slam dunk choice from an eco, cost of ownership or overall efficiency standpoint and I assure you sales figures will bear this out.

Audi's recent success with racing diesel powerplants is the outcome of sanctioning body rules that served to aggressively encourage and promote alternative technologies. This is done by tipping scales to favor diesel power. The same rule books clip the wings of Ferrari, Corvette and Porsche to ensure parity. For example to keep things fair, the track-legal competition version of Viper typically produces 150 to 200HP LESS than a dealer showroom car. Race-legal GTS-R is limited to 450 to 500 hp while stock Viper produces 640HP. They are not penalizing Audi diesel race cars in this fashion or they would be too slow for pace car or parade lap duty lol. This is how Audi diesel magically passes a Porsche on a race track. Bizarre race rules allow a NASCAR Taurus (originally a $25K pedestrian sedan) to run quicker lap times on a speedway or road couse than a LeMans prepped Ferrari (originally a $250K sports car). This is why race results serve as useless testimony for the merits of diesel power in an econobox.

You really can't even quantify the benefit of owning a Jeep CRD or how long it takes to pay back because you would need to own a gas version and operate them under the exact same cycle and duty. You don't own a gas version, so your "pays for itself" conclusion is just a guess that does not hold water. I need to see calculations, not just declarations. Since it's a SUV with significant weight and frontal area, I imagine ithe diesel uses less fuel and offers a better torque curve. But hey, let's be honest because true cost of ownership must take into account the option cost. This is why hybrids offering double the city mileage struggle to break even with gas cars over the life of the vehicle. Again, the EPA does this sort of analysis for the consumer. I'll rely upon experts using scientifically-sound methods for objective comparisons, cost of ownership or payback.

To your last point, I'm not interested in hearing how driving your diesel car on cooking oils or off-road fuel (without paying your fair share of road taxes) is cheaper. No kidding, that's nothing more than theft of public services. Other taxpayers (both diesel and gas) who buy fuel at the pump are being forced to cover your share of road construction and repair. I own a gas car, but realize I can save money recycling cooking oil too. Cooking oil has value no matter what car you own. I can heat my house with it without stealing over 50 cents out of a fellow taxpayer's pocket for every gallon burned. I'd never consider a $3800 diesel option and $1000 cooking oil conversion kit for an econobox.

Last edited by Lscman; 02-09-2013 at 11:07 AM.
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