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-   -   I may know a fix for some of the DCT issues. Hear me out..... (http://www.focusfanatics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=322869)

TheGlassMaker 08-12-2013 04:28 AM

I may know a fix for some of the DCT issues. Hear me out.....
 
Let me leave a little input here.

Not sure on the MK3 focus, but my mazda6 has the transmission cooler built into the radiator. The cooler is too small and has low coolant flow for what the trans needs. It's common on all atx mazda 6s.

It will cause hard shifting, jerking during parking, and wineing when extremely hot. In 90 degree weather no matter what, you have to deal with it all day long or short drives.

Over time if nothing is done, it will cause early transmission failure. Which will force trans rebuilding or replacement.

There is a cheap fix well known in mazda community, and it maybe the answer to your DCT problems.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/bmm-70268

You will also need to get some hose to make the connections.

And here is a how-to for doing it on the mazda6.

http://www.xsadclan.com/files/6/Mazd..._cooler_6s.pdf





The kit comes with almost everything you need for the install. It comes with one hose but you will need two. Which you can order 11/32 x 4.5 hose at your local auto parts store for under 15 bucks. Much cheaper than to replace a transmission.


Here is what the kit includes.

https://photos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphoto...53633548_n.jpg
https://photos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphoto...14249894_n.jpg
https://fbcdn-photos-f-a.akamaihd.ne...56082691_n.jpg

Fuess 08-12-2013 06:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheGlassMaker (Post 4839061)
Let me leave a little input here.

Not sure on the MK3 focus, but my mazda6 has the transmission cooler built into the radiator. The cooler is too small and has low coolant flow for what the trans needs. It's common on all atx mazda 6s.

It will cause hard shifting, jerking during parking, and wineing when extremely hot. In 90 degree weather no matter what, you have to deal with it all day long or short drives.

Over time if nothing is done, it will cause early transmission failure. Which will force trans rebuilding or replacement.

There is a cheap fix well known in mazda community, and it maybe the answer to your DCT problems.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/bmm-70268

You will also need to get some hose to make the connections.

And here is a how-to for doing it on the mazda6.

http://www.xsadclan.com/files/6/Mazd..._cooler_6s.pdf





The kit comes with almost everything you need for the install. It comes with one hose but you will need two. Which you can order 11/32 x 4.5 hose at your local auto parts store for under 15 bucks. Much cheaper than to replace a transmission.


Here is what the kit includes.

https://photos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphoto...53633548_n.jpg
https://photos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphoto...14249894_n.jpg
https://fbcdn-photos-f-a.akamaihd.ne...56082691_n.jpg

This is not an option for DCT equipped cars.They do not have a conventional automatic with tranny lines that can be plumbed into.

The DCT is a sealed unit and doesen't rely on volumes of tranny fluid to keep it cool.

Taking off the under engine shield may help somewhat but it still won't cure a bad design.

reamkeeper 08-12-2013 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fuess (Post 4839079)
This is not an option for DCT equipped cars.They do not have a conventional automatic with tranny lines that can be plumbed into.

The DCT is a sealed unit and doesen't rely on volumes of tranny fluid to keep it cool.

Taking off the under engine shield may help somewhat but it still won't cure a bad design.

I would have to agree, with the Mazda 6's the fluid sounds like its getting too hot, but with the DCT, even if it is getting above its optimal temp there isn't realy a way to cool the fluid even if that was the issue, it would be like trying to put a tranny cooler on a manual transmission car.

OhFFS 08-12-2013 08:10 AM

Even though it doesn't apply, I'm glad to see people throwing out ideas. I still need to try dan50's intake idea.

TheGlassMaker 08-12-2013 08:59 AM

Well another guy in a seperate thread was talking about his trans over heating. He mentions all the exact symptoms that the mazda goes through.

Which got me thinking, I wonder if the over heating IS the problem the whole time and the other symtoms like grinding ect. Is what happens when nothing is done.

But as you guys mention above. The trans doesn't have a cooler there for you can't put the said cooler on. I didn't realize, and to be honest it now dawns on me how screwed the design really is. Makes me wonder if ford would have simply put on a conventional liquid cooled auto-trans, even if it was double clutch and what ever else. If none of the stupid crap would even be the issue.



Ok hear me out again.....


Has anyone looked into a doing a trans swap from a earlier duratec model, either focus or escape? I'm almost positive there isn't a lot of difference between a mk3 engine and say a '05 escape 4 banger.

It may be a little bit of work and require some ecu reprograming but I still wonder.

PratoN 08-12-2013 09:09 AM

Maybe we can install a fan in bell housing? lol

But not until after my warranty expires.

OhFFS 08-12-2013 09:18 AM

As I understand it, the current Escape auto is a traditional torque-converter-and-planetary-gear type, and ought to fit. I'd bet $1 that it would require a custom transmission mount and driveshafts. And a wiring harness.

And as you point out, the modules are programmed to talk with the DPS6's TCM. If you're really lucky, you might find a dealership willing to help, but they'll want cubic dollars to do it.

And for what it's worth, I got grinding (and my usual shifting issues) this morning, within 5 minutes of leaving home. It was 65 degrees F outside.

gkirk 08-12-2013 09:20 AM

I've always thought my grinding is worse when its hot outside and after the car has been sitting in traffic in the heat. when it's cold, it seems to behave a lot better.

TboneZX3 08-12-2013 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheGlassMaker (Post 4839178)
Well another guy in a seperate thread was talking about his trans over heating. He mentions all the exact symptoms that the mazda goes through.

Which got me thinking, I wonder if the over heating IS the problem the whole time and the other symtoms like grinding ect. Is what happens when nothing is done.

It's highly unlikely. It is virtually impossible to overheat a manual transmission like the DCT. They don't heat through fluid pressures like a traditional hydraulic/planetary automatic. It's plausible that the clutches are overheating in the DCT--especially in low-speed, stop-and-go traffic, but attempting to cool the gear oil will have no effect on clutch temperature.

Trying an oil cooler on the DCT would require some type of pump to circulate the oil through the cooler since the gears are in a non-pressurized oil bath. You would also have to drill and tap holes into the transmission case to fit the cooling lines. It's hardly worth the effort for something that will have no effect.

Timthom62 08-12-2013 10:26 AM

According to the service manual, (Transmission section 307-01 "System Operation"), the transmission overheat messages are related to the temperature of the clutch rather than the transmission. The TCM calculates the clutch temp based on a model that includes variables like engine speed, engine torque, measured rotational speeds of the shafts within the transmission, and calculated clutch torque. Exceed the limit and you'll see one of the three "transmission hot" messages.

Since it's a dry clutch, there's not much that we can do about it. The different metals within the clutch unit will have different thermal expansion properties and Ford (or whoever) calculated a temperature beyond which undoubtedly damage will occur. Considering the experience that some have had with the DCT, Ford probably felt they had to put messages on the display for this so that people who've been to the dealer a dozen times wouldn't start telling themselves "That's how it's supposed to work" out of habit.

The gearbox itself only holds less than two liters of fluid, enough to fill the case to the level of the upper fill port. The gearbox is then lubricated by immersion/centrifugal force as the oil is slung within the case by the gears. As there's no real flow, there's nothing for a transmission cooler to really do.

Kudos for trying to think outside the box though. As most of the issues trace back to the clutches, if you came up with a liquid Freon cooling system for the clutch module, I think you'd be in business.


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