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-   -   For those exhibiting DTC PO460 (http://www.focusfanatics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=321156)

Juicedz 07-16-2013 09:08 PM

For those exhibiting DTC PO460
 
After receiving my injected tuner I had several DTC codes that were pulled from my car that I was unaware of. I was able to clear all codes but one....(PO460). Aron suggested I take the car to the dealer to see if anything might be out of the ordinary. Based on what I could find it's either a fuel level sensor circuit malfunction with the bcm or a evap system small leak condition.
So I dropped the car off about 9 am this morning and the dealer called me back a few hours later. They agreed that the vehicle is exhibiting code PO460 but stated Ford has instructed them that, "all 2012-2013 Ford Explorers, Escapes, and Focus's experiencing PO460 are to be ignored per SSM #10011." Apparently it's a miscommunication with the body control module of some sort. Doesn't make much sense to me. Just letting everyone know

SilverPony2001 07-16-2013 09:16 PM

Forgive my ignorance, but are the DTC codes unable to be read with a regular OBD scanner? Does the check engine light/service engine soon light go on for these? If this is the case, that they cannot be read normally, then is it possible for other people to have "live" DTC codes active, without any knowledge?

Sorry if this doesn't make sense, not really knowledgeable with tuner modules.

Juicedz 07-16-2013 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SilverPony2001 (Post 4811582)
Forgive my ignorance, but are the DTC codes unable to be read with a regular OBD scanner? Does the check engine light/service engine soon light go on for these? If this is the case, that they cannot be read normally, then is it possible for other people to have "live" DTC codes active, without any knowledge?
Sorry if this doesn't make sense, not really knowledgeable with tuner modules.

Very good question! ShoOff and myself were both unable to pull any codes with high end OBD2 scanners. However, the injected Tuners were able to pull DTC codes. Aron explained the reasoning behind this is due to the sensitivity of their tuner (which is great in my opinion). So to answer your question, yes, it is possible for people to be throwing DTC codes without actually throwing a service engine light. Instructed to ignore a DTC on brand new car seems crazy to me I guess.

SilverPony2001 07-16-2013 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Juicedz (Post 4811587)
Very good question! ShoOff and myself were both unable to pull any codes with high end OBD2 scanners. However, the injected Tuners were able to pull DTC codes. Aron explained the reasoning behind this is due to the sensitivity of their tuner (which is great in my opinion). So to answer your question, yes, it is possible for people to be throwing DTC codes without actually throwing a service engine light.

So I'm assuming if you are not throwing a light, Ford may just determine that these codes are "not as important" if the light had been on. Since many people would never realize these codes had been activated.


Maybe a "Could not reproduce the problem" scenario.

Juicedz 07-16-2013 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SilverPony2001 (Post 4811595)
So I'm assuming if you are not throwing a light, Ford may just determine that these codes are "not as important" if the light had been on. Since many people would never realize these codes had been activated. Maybe a "Could not reproduce the problem" scenario.

Yes and no. I don't believe it's a major issues since like I stated previously it seems to be a small system leak in the evap system. But they were able to identify the code so the "could not reproduce the problem" doesn't really hold merit even though I get what you're thinking.
Out of dozens of injected users there's only a handful that have had dtc issues, most of which were able to be cleared. What side would you rather be sitting on [wiggle]
The first time I scanned there were 7 dtc codes on the tuner, no service engine light was ever present. I was able to clear all but one of these codes (PO460). A large portion of them may have come from removing the battery at one point, if I had to guess.
P0460-Evap system small leak conditions
U0140-Lost Communication with Body Control Module
U0253-Lost communication with accessory protocol interface module
U0300-Internal control module software incompatibility
U0422-Invalid data received from body control module
U3003-control module power disruption
U0126-lost communication with the steering angle sensor module.

mishka 07-17-2013 03:28 PM

I just ordered the tune. I have the dual clutch transmission with select shift. I'm hoping I don't run into these problems! *crosses fingers
I also am a complete noob when it comes to tuning. 8-)

jcw122 07-17-2013 03:31 PM

I've read before here that you can pull codes via the Test Mode.

dan50 07-17-2013 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mishka (Post 4812460)
I just ordered the tune. I have the dual clutch transmission with select shift. I'm hoping I don't run into these problems! *crosses fingers
I also am a complete noob when it comes to tuning. 8-)

Not to hijack this thread, but you may want to consider the warranty implications of messing with Ford's tuning before you do so. Can't imagine Ford would be very supportive.

Juicedz 07-17-2013 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dan50 (Post 4812503)
Not to hijack this thread, but you may want to consider the warranty implications of messing with Ford's tuning before you do so. Can't imagine Ford would be very supportive.

Which is why injected offers the possibility to remove the tune completely to bring it in for warranty work [slap]

suss6052 07-17-2013 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Juicedz (Post 4812727)
Which is why injected offers the possibility to remove the tune completely to bring it in for warranty work [slap]

You do realize that Ford's been getting wise to this and can implement ways of checking to see if the computer's ever been flashed and compare it against the service history database, so unless you can some how mask that it still leaves the tell tale red flags in the system.

Ford has to step up their inspections, especially after people were taking their Mustangs, Ecoboost Flex/Taurus/ MKS/ etc, tuning them up to 11, breaking them, then trying to mask the fact that it was tune related.

http://www.fordtechservice.dealercon...A&tsb=10-02-06

Quote:

ISSUE:

Some 2010 Taurus, Flex, MKS and MKT vehicles equipped with an EcoBoost engine may have unauthorized aftermarket modifications to the powertrain hardware and/or calibration which may result in exceeding component design limits. Such modifications could cause damage to the powertrain and/or void the factory powertrain warranty.

SERVICE PROCEDURE

Unauthorized calibration modifications may or may not be detectable using standard tools (Integrated Diagnostic System (IDS), Portable Diagnostic Software (PDS), NGS+ VCM). Changes can be made to the calibration and flashed to the PCM through the OBD port. Physical modifications to the hardware may or may not be present. If aftermarket power/torque-increasing modifications are suspected, care should be taken to record and store the following items: Permanent Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTCs), Pending DTCs, Freeze Frame Data, Mode 6 and Mode 9 data. The data should be printed and attached to the repair order for later reference.

The DTCs, freeze frame data, Mode 6 and 9 data can be obtained by using the IDS, PDS or NGS+VCM under tool box selection. The Powertrain tab will provide the OBD Test Modes tab and Mode 6 and 9 data selection after the vehicle has been identified.

Attempting to increase the engine output via recalibrating the PCM may result in poor drivability, DTCs, or component failures. A partial list of calibration induced component failures is given below:

Piston damage.
Spark over-advanced (knock-induced damage).
Insufficient enrichment.
Excessive Cylinder Pressure:

Turbocharger damage.
Over-Speed:

Catalyst damage.
Over-Temperature/Melting:

Transmission, PTU, Torque converter damage.
Hardware Modifications:

The following list contains items that are frequently modified in an effort to increase the engines torque/power output. Modifying these items may, or may not improve the performance, but can lead to drivability issues, DTCs and possibly component failures:

Air induction system (air box, low pressure and high pressure air ducts).
The system may be particularly susceptible to flexible air ducts between the air filter and the compressors. Restrictions on either side of the compressor can result in over-speeding the turbo (Figures 5-6).

Wastegate actuator pre-tension.
The full load output of some turbocharged engines will increase if the wastegate spring pre-tension is increased. This is not the case with the EcoBoost engine. Adjusting the wastegate pre-tension out of the specified range can result in DTCs. A tamper evident paint dot has been applied to the wastegate actuator adjustment mechanism to make modifications more apparent.

Throttle inlet and intake manifold pressure sensors.
These sensors and the associated wiring should be inspected to verify they have not been modified.

Additional fuel injection devices.
The high pressure fuel system used for the EcoBoost engine will not support additional fuel flow beyond what the factory calibration requests. Inspect the engine for an additional aftermarket injector(s) located somewhere in the induction system to provided increased fuel flow.

PCV system modifications.
If the PCV system is modified (vented to atmosphere being the most common modification) it can result in a condition where oil gets past the turbine seal even on an undamaged, fully functional turbocharger. Oil in the exhaust system may not be sufficient evidence to identify a failed turbo if the PCV system has been compromised.

Compressor bypass modifications (a.k.a. blow-off valve, or anti-surge valve).
It is common to modify these components so they make more noise. If the aftermarket devices fail to seal properly when closed, elevated turbo speeds and compressor outlet temperatures will occur.

Exhaust air path/system.
Removal of catalysts or mufflers/resonators to reduce exhaust backpressure may result in over-speeding the turbo(s).

Thermostat modifications.
Blocking open the thermostat may reduce the coolant flow to the turbo chargers.

Wastegate Tamper Evident Paint Dot

Review Engine Damage:

Piston Damage

Top ring delaminating and top ring land pitting caused by excessive spark advance.


WARRANTY STATUS:

Information Only - Not Warrantable



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