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-   -   New USA bound diesels? (http://www.focusfanatics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=309840)

whynotthinkwhynot 02-21-2013 06:40 AM

New USA bound diesels?
 
Clean Diesel power for half-ton Pick-ups

I'll have to see it to believe it. The Mercedes is already on sale- that's an amazing engine with close to 400 ft-lb of torque and 200 hp from a 4 cyl. Mazda is finally bringing the SkyActivD to the USA, in the 6, which baffles me. I'd have expected it in the little SUV first.

Ford? Nah..nothing more than we already expected. The full size Transit van will be getting a 5 cyl turbo diesel that powers Rangers overseas. Please, hold your enthusiasm down. We will not be getting any USA made hyper fuel economy diesel cars with a blue oval on them. You'll get that 3 cyl gas turbo in the Fiesta instead- and you will like it. Please, ignore the diesel Cobalts across the street.

Some encouraging news- someone has finally realized that diesels are really good for hybrid use. Even though Ford, GM, and Chrysler were all paid millions of taxpayer money in the late 90's for the PNGV project that produced 72 mpg electric diesel hybrids- no, it's not any of them. It's VW.

Just keep waiting Ford. Wait until everyone else has done it, then you'll know it's safe.

kam327 02-21-2013 07:53 AM

Now that Chevy has proven that a diesel will be no more frugal, slower, and cost a hell of a lot more than today's gasoline engine, I bet the fervor for diesels wanes a bit in the coming years.

I wonder if the Jetta TDI would've been so popular if they had offered a truly competitive gasoline powertrain in that car too.

Kevastator 02-21-2013 12:23 PM

I think Chrysler is on the right track offering the ecodiesel in the Grand Cherokee and the Ram. As much as I wish ford would stick that 5cyl diesel from the transit in an F150, I think it would take too much market share from all of the other stellar engines offered in that truck.. :/

But I'm in favor of diesels, as long as they make sense.

Jetta TDI [thumb]
Cruze Diesel [thumbd]
Mazda 6 Diesel don't know yet
Ram eco diesel [thumb]

Malibooya 02-21-2013 01:29 PM

I'm thoroughly unimpressed by the Cruze diesel - at this point I have to believe it's a concentrated effort to turn Americans off from diesel, again.

The MKIV Golf TDI could do 50MPG on the highway, ten years ago. 40MPG from a small-midsize car in 2013 is wholly unimpressive.

Speaking of diesel/electric hybrids though, didn't Peugeot just do one? Some supercarish looking thing with a copper body.

whynotthinkwhynot 02-21-2013 05:42 PM

I have a friend with a Jetta Sportwagon TDI, and he reports 55 mpg on the highway during travels to NO, LA from Memphis, TN. I've quizzed him on how people make mistakes figuring fuel economy, so it seems he's using the right math. I'm not about to go purchase one right now because it's not worth it for me- not even a new gasoline car is not cost effective. It's dumb to spend $300/mo to save $500/yr in fuel. If I had the extra cash, I'd probably buy a used Leaf since those can be had for about what I could build an electric for myself. I saw one recently under $20k around town. I only have a 50 mi RT drive to work, so that would probably work. Most Leaf owners are selling their cars because the actual range is about 60 miles instead of 100. Like the car owners suing auto-makers, these people forgot to factor in things like lights, radio, and AC in their range calculations. Not to mention the effect of ambient heat and cold on the battery.

n00btard 02-22-2013 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kam327 (Post 4600117)
Now that Chevy has proven that a diesel will be no more frugal, slower, and cost a hell of a lot more than today's gasoline engine, I bet the fervor for diesels wanes a bit in the coming years.

I wonder if the Jetta TDI would've been so popular if they had offered a truly competitive gasoline powertrain in that car too.

Dude, seriously?

#1 Gassers won't ever make the low end torque compression makes. It's just never going to happen. Never. The only motors with more low end torque are electric. Torque is better for towing and general hauling of ass in hill country --and it's just better for camping period.

#2 Diesel isn't slow. My wife is buying a TDI Cup Jetta for the very reason that its faster than a 2.5L Autobahn and a 2.0T GLI --all the while getting better milage. I'd own a GTD if they sold it here --but they don't. The VW .:R line is even going compression according to an interview with their director --and I'll be on that like white on rice if it comes out here.

#3 You left out how long a compression motor lasts. 500K miles is expected out of most Ford Diesel trucks and VW TDIs.

n00btard 02-22-2013 07:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malibooya (Post 4600707)
I'm thoroughly unimpressed by the Cruze diesel - at this point I have to believe it's a concentrated effort to turn Americans off from diesel, again.

The MKIV Golf TDI could do 50MPG on the highway, ten years ago. 40MPG from a small-midsize car in 2013 is wholly unimpressive.

Speaking of diesel/electric hybrids though, didn't Peugeot just do one? Some supercarish looking thing with a copper body.

Project Sipster was an 84MPG MKI w/ a MKIV 1.9L swap. I'm seriously considering building one as a project car. It's just too retardedly epic tomfoolery not to. That $7K project would be as fast as my Gen1 Focus was --but get 84MPG...

Did you see Audi is talking about releasing a production R18? They seem to be winning a few races with diesel-electric hybrids. I wish I crapped enough gold bulleon for such a toy...

kam327 02-22-2013 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by n00btard (Post 4602264)
Dude, seriously?

#1 Gassers won't ever make the low end torque compression makes. It's just never going to happen. Never. The only motors with more low end torque are electric. Torque is better for towing and general hauling of ass in hill country --and it's just better for camping period.

#2 Diesel isn't slow. My wife is buying a TDI Cup Jetta for the very reason that its faster than a 2.5L Autobahn and a 2.0T GLI --all the while getting better milage. I'd own a GTD if they sold it here --but they don't. The VW .:R line is even going compression according to an interview with their director --and I'll be on that like white on rice if it comes out here.

#3 You left out how long a compression motor lasts. 500K miles is expected out of most Ford Diesel trucks and VW TDIs.

Chevy says the 0-60 time of the diesel is 8.6 seconds. Zerotosixtytimes.com says the Cruze Eco manual does it in 7.9 seconds. Slower.

http://www.zeroto60times.com/Chevrol...mph-Times.html

Would you REALLY keep a Cruze for 500k miles? [dunno]

kam327 02-22-2013 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by n00btard (Post 4602264)
#2 Diesel isn't slow. My wife is buying a TDI Cup Jetta for the very reason that its faster than a 2.5L Autobahn and a 2.0T GLI --all the while getting better milage. I'd own a GTD if they sold it here --but they don't. The VW .:R line is even going compression according to an interview with their director --and I'll be on that like white on rice if it comes out here.

That's not what the figures quoted on zeroto60times.com show:

2011 Volkswagen Jetta SEL 0-60 mph 8.2 Quarter Mile 16.0
2011 Volkswagen Jetta TDI 0-60 mph 8.7 Quarter Mile 16.4
2011 Volkswagen Jetta GLI 0-60 mph 6.2

TDI is slowest.



2009 Volkswagen Jetta SportWagen 2.5L SE (Manual) 0-60 mph 8.3
2009 Volkswagen Jetta TDI DSG 0-60 mph 8.3 Quarter Mile 16.2

Tied with the gasser.



2005 Volkswagen Jetta 2.5 (Auto) 0-60 mph 9.3 Quarter Mile 16.7
2006 Volkswagen Jetta TDI 0-60 mph 10.2 Quarter Mile 17.4
2006 Volkswagen Jetta GLI 0-60 mph 6.3 Quarter mile 14.9

TDI is slowest.

kam327 02-22-2013 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whynotthinkwhynot (Post 4601239)
I have a friend with a Jetta Sportwagon TDI, and he reports 55 mpg on the highway during travels to NO, LA from Memphis, TN.

Yeah but what does he set the cruise control at? That makes a huge difference. My '12 Focus should exceed 45mpg pure highway if I set the cruise control at 55mph.

One couple got 84mpg on a long highway trip in a Passat TDI. But they also got 65mpg in a Cruze Eco. Both gas and diesel can far exceed expectations if driven right. In that scenario the Cruze Eco would probably've been the overall more economical choice, given the price premium for diesel engines and fuel.


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