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-   -   Stance for the MK3 (http://www.focusfanatics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=308248)

Errant Erik 02-02-2013 08:41 PM

Stance for the MK3
 
First to any mods, I know this seems like suspension/wheel talk, but I really want other mk3 people to see and respond to this, since they actually have the car, not so much the mk1 crowd...

so I asked once already in the stance section on focaljet, but now that my ksports for my mk3 came in, i'll ask again here (since no one there knew); has anyone messed around with fitment on the mk3?

st wheels are et55 with a 235 tire so the wheel is only 7.7 mm or so further out board, and the tires are 10mm wider each direction but accounting for offset are only about 5 mm outboard of a stock se with sport wheels but are still inside the fender and completely tuckable...

SOOOOOO now my question is, anyone who has gotten to know this car well (like Chaos09), do you think 9.5 at et45 with a 215 would work? That would be about 36.75mm (about 1.45 inches) out board and about 26.75mm (1.05 inches) in board, right? Seems to me there is enough room each direction for that, judging by the current wheels, the wheel face looks like it would be around 1/8-1/4 and inch out of the fender but with a 215 tread surface would still be well inside the fender (don't how I would be able to measure wheel face location for sure though), and I think there would be just enough room for that extra width on the backside of the wheel to the shocks/struts...

am I crazy? anyone know? jon holso or whatever his name was was rolling with 19x9's with 215's at a final et of like 34 and 30 front/rear, but he had to ruin his fenders though, so idk. Any thoughts or knowledge would be appreciated...

Chaos09 02-02-2013 08:55 PM

My 9" wide wheels are et36. The rear sits flush due to the -2 degree camber. The front sticks past about 3-4mm. I'm going to pull my front fenders. I can barely get a finger between the wheel and the coilovers. Hope this helps.

Errant Erik 02-03-2013 01:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chaos09 (Post 4570008)
My 9" wide wheels are et36. The rear sits flush due to the -2 degree camber. The front sticks past about 3-4mm. I'm going to pull my front fenders. I can barely get a finger between the wheel and the coilovers. Hope this helps.

It does, but now is that finger between the wheel and coilover in the front or back, or both? Also how thick are your fingers? lol

I think once i get the coils on i'll do some wood work and make a circle of plywood that is 18" in diameter, drill holes to match our pcd and hub bore and throw it on, so i can pull more concrete measurements from it...

And did you reveal your wheels yet, last I saw it was just a teaser pic of the wheel in that truck bed

Chaos09 02-03-2013 01:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Errant Erik (Post 4570338)
It does, but now is that finger between the wheel and coilover in the front or back, or both? Also how thick are your fingers? lol

I think once i get the coils on i'll do some wood work and make a circle of plywood that is 18" in diameter, drill holes to match our pcd and hub bore and throw it on, so i can pull more concrete measurements from it...

And did you reveal your wheels yet, last I saw it was just a teaser pic of the wheel in that truck bed

My bad. You have about a half inch between the wheel and coil in the front. The back has plenty of room. I have not revealed my show wheels yet. Still have to send them off the get coated then add new tires.

thejordan 02-03-2013 01:31 AM

215 on a 9.5, gtfo

Chaos09 02-03-2013 01:36 AM

@ Errant Erik

Check out www.tyrestretch.com
That will give you and idea on what size tire will stretch and how bad.

Errant Erik 02-03-2013 01:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thejordan (Post 4570381)
215 on a 9.5, gtfo

lol, you disagree thejordan? My mk1 has 195's on an 8, which is a ratio of 96% tire to wheel coverage, 215 on 9.5 is a ratio of 89%, so 7% less rim coverage. Yes a lil lower than I want, but since I have yet to find reasonably priced wheels in our pcd that are 18x9 (94% ratio), which is what I really want, I'm looking at these unnamed wheels that are 18x9.5.

look up pics 18x9.5 with a 215, it isn't uncommon, 225/40 (93% t/w ratio) I suppose could be an option but that throws off potential tire-tucking ability, because these wheels already would have 5mm more offset than stock, and then the tire would be 5mm wider each direction from stock.

idk all still up in the air, still don't have the coilovers on, and probably wont until presidents day weekend...and i really think i might make the plywood wheel to get measurements from.

Too bad I'm not a baller, I live like only 45 minutes from ccw; It'd be sweet to have them just which me up a set of perfectly fitted wheels...

thejordan 02-03-2013 02:26 AM

I'm no noob to wheel fitment coming from the Subaru crowd and the beginning of hellaflush in venice beach, ca.

Rolling your fenders is a must, otherwise it's like wearing half a condom, it still doesn't work, and when it doesn't work... you're screwed. You can find a proper fender roller through most forums.

Have fun finding a shop that will set a bead on a 215 tire onto a 9.5 wheel. If they do, be prepared to sign a liability waiver.

A 215 tire is engineered only for 7-8.5" wheel widths according to most manufacturers. Anything beyond those means can be a safety issue and has no benefits.

You drive a focus, a 9.5" wheel is only going to slow you down due to the added mass. Rotational mass is the biggest killer to a car besides a reduced contact patch. An 8.5 or 9 would be easier to fit, look better, be lighter, and offer more grip, comfort, and safety. 17s are often cheaper as well.

You'll have to have camber adjustment for front and rear to get close to tucking at low offsets (I'd guess a +35 for a mk3). Most guys run at least -2 degrees of camber for more aggressive set-ups, and sometimes a fender pull depending on the vehicle.

Just because something isn't uncommon doesn't mean it's correct either. There are plenty of idiots out there, you don't have to be one.

Lower your car and put wider wheels, but do so within your means.

StingRay 02-03-2013 02:27 AM

This is my Sig on most forums. I'll just leave it here;

http://i974.photobucket.com/albums/a...2/2b715425.jpg

Errant Erik 02-04-2013 08:20 PM

As a disclaimer I don't like how you can't read sarcasm or feeling through what's typed on a forum, so, not trying to fight or anything because IDK where any one is coming from, I'm just saying this thread wasn't meant to be so much about what people like or some think is propper. Its just like why I don't go on peoples threads about this lip or that lip, or this body kit or that, and start bashing them for still thinking they are Vin Diesel and this is 1999, to each their own.

I'm just gauging what has been done, and what there might be room for...anything unrelated from this post out I'll just ignore. No offense, but this is why my post count is so low on this forum, its a site of people who don't recognize their car is; a cheap econobox, not a purpose designed track car...


1) I come from both the volkswagen and honda community, I'm not a noob to this either, my mk1 focus is running 195 on 8's, but other people in my circle are running 185s on 8s, and a buddy on his mk4 r32 is running 195 on 8.5 front and 215 9.5 rear...

2) this isn't my performance car, that is what my mk1 project is for, idk if you or many people realize this but stretch isn't anything new and goes back to the early days of circuit racing and f1, here's a lil history for ya:

Quote:

The Racing and High-Performance Tire, Using the tire to Tune for Grip and Balance, Paul Haney, 2003, co-published by SAE and TV Motorsports
pp.99-101


Selected quotes from an interview with Jim Hall and Brian Redman. Racers from the '50s and '60s:

Jim: “We had started runnin' skid-pad tests, just going round and round on the skid pad. We got good at it and we found out we could balance the car this way. It was a little bit more technical than we could figure out. It would go up to 0.98 Gs one way and only 0.92 Gs the other way. So Firestone told us their tire was built to run on a 7-inch wide rim. I had built some modular wheels and we could vary the width by what mid-sections parts we used. We'd run the tires they gave us on a 7-inch rim and maybe an 8 and a 9 too. The wider rims made the sidewalls stiffer and instead of running a 0.95 average G you'd run a 0.99. So of course we put them on 9-inch rims. Well, we'd go to the next race and the Firestone guys would look and them and say, "We didn't design those tires to run on a 9-inch rim. We better build a new tire.‟ They'd add an inch to the tread. They'd do them quickly too. They can build prototype tires in a hurry. In a couple of weeks they'd have another tire. And we'd run on a 9-inch rim and a 10 and maybe an 11. And we'd find it was better on a wider rim, so it would happen all over again. In a matter of less than a year we went from those narrow little Dunlop Green Spots to a tire that was almost double the width. So that's what happened with me on tires. In the middle '60's, probably '64 or '65, Firestone took us from less than 6 inches of tread width up to 12 inches.”

Paul: “Just because you kept skidpad testing them on wider rims?”

Jim: “Right.”

Brian: “Speed on the skidpad is speed around the racetrack”

Jim: “Cornering speed is the key to everything. You can have more horsepower but you got to stop it at the other end. But if you can leave the corner just that much faster, you carry that speed all around the racetrack. The whole thing is cornering speed, basically.”
no a 215 on a 9.5 doesn't fall into that still performance oriented category nor does an 18x9.5, but again that isn't what this bone stock econobox is about...

3) I have friends that run a tire shop, we f' around all the time seeing what we can set; so far 175 on a 9.5 was the most we could set using a cheetah bead setter, also we have an eastwood roller i'm not terribly worried about rolling its the pulling that gets me...

4) I was looking for insight from people who have poked around the wheel wells and suspension of this car to get a sense of what can fit in terms of back spacing and total width, not a lecture on stretch

5) everything is theoretical still, just trying to find out how far the car has been pushed: so far there has been jon holso with 19x9 (on 215s) et34 front et30 rear with a lot of pull, and choas09 is going 17x9 et36 with maybe some pull, like I said 18x9 is what I'd prefer (and you can't argue that a 215 wont fit a 9) but as of yet I haven't seen wheels I like in our pcd, let alone that wide, so unless someone here in orlando can sleeve and redrill wheels I'm SOL...

6) other wheel idea is run a set of all rear wheels from a ferrrari 348 those are 17x9 et43 and pretty common, ugly but they have heritage... https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...EI6k8AS5vIDYAQ


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