Turbo, Engine, Tune
Okay, well first off I'm in the automotive program at my college and I'm taking the engine building class finally. So I want to build my Zetec up for 350+whp hoping for closer to 400 though. Well I wanted so of your ideas and tips. I'm gonna do the 9:1 pistons. I want to know what head or head work will give me the best results for my wanted power. Also I wanted to get every little power I can so I'm going to get an under drive pulley but only if any one knows if they make one for the alternator so I wont have to deal with voltage drops. And a shout out to Tom could you pm me for what I'll need for my turbo to not explode my engine like forged internals and multilayer steel head gasket I'm wanting to be able to go up to 20-30 psi for track days but drop it do 2-5 psi on dd type days. Also around tax time I'm doing mine asap to buy the tuner from Tom. What axles would one recommend so I don't snap or twist the stocks ones.
So all in all I want to know where any one gained power or even better throttle response, what parts did you get or use? How much? Where at?
Looking for any and all power gains would love 500whp I've see Zetec's get even more than that. And what tras would be best for this 4speed auto, MTX-75, or 6speed geartag? If i get a stick what stage clutch 2 or 3?
Thank you for any help!!! Dyno's, prices, websites, and pic's would be much appreciated.
I wouldnt do a UDP
ARP Head and Main studs
Stock Ford Head Gasket
Ported head isnt going to help a lot but wont hurt to do it
Stock cams will get you to your goal about as well as adding any
Adjustable cam gears
I like the ATX with a Turbo ALOT , www.lentechautomatics.com is you best bet if you stay ATX
Full 3 inch Exh
And much much more , the list is long and costly for what your fixing to dry to do , your going to be in the range of 6-$7000.00+ right off the bat
Would be almost cheaper to find a nice built Focus and buy it and change things to make it yours
underdrive pulleys are a waste of time money and effort. a lentech ATX is going to be your best bet for the cost in all reality. you can still daily drive it and it will out perform a manual on the track because you arent loosing boost in between gears. there is also trans-brake which is very nice. the lentech is on my wish list.
you CAN get a P&P head for additional power if you can either do the P&P yourself or have someone who can do it for cheap and stock cams work really well with boost. however it would probably be more cost effective to simply leave the head bone stock and just rebuild it if needed and simply run slightly higher boost to get your power goals.
stock ford head gasket is all you need for a high boost build, no need for anything fancy.
any brand forged piston you can find will do the trick, shop around for combo deals with eagle rods. you NEED forged pistons and rods for anything above 240-260whp. dont go out of your way to find larger piston unless you need to bore your block out to remove damage. there is no power to be gained from that.
get all the ARP fasteners that you can find. while they arent really necessary they are highly recommended. under high boost you will probably start lifting the head from the block with factory stretch bolts. this is just 1 example of why you will want ARP so save yourself some future heartache and go ahead and spend a little extra for them.
i think that 350whp is about the limit of what you can get out of the stock fuel system. to go past about 300 i think you need a boost a pump. and past 350 you will need to go to a return style fuel system. there are many how-to threads out there on how to do this and if you need 1 on 1 help with this then i am sure that tom or anyone else here would be happy to explain anything you need.
if you decide to stick with a manual transmission you are going to spend close to a grand on clutch alone and it is also highly recommended that you buy a limited slip differential. the stock diff is the weak link in all the focus trannies and i have personally had one explode and destroy 1 trans which tom was kind enough to replace for me many moons ago (thanks tom). torsen or quaife are the only two brands that you should even take the time of day to consider. any other brands are very iffy and some are just plain garbage. if you absolutely MUST do this on a budget then OBX put out a LSD for the MTX-75. i have not heard ANYTHING good OR bad about this diff but the build quality seems to be good but let it be known that you WILL be a guinea pig if you decide to do that because i dont think anyone honestly knows what they can take. the quaife diff is the best that there is. it has a lifetime warranty on it. if you somehow manage to bust it then quaife will replace it whether you race it or not. torsen has no warranty but you have to be running very high power numbers on slicks and really launching the car like a fool to bust one of them.
also dont worry about aftermarket axles. believe me you dont want to go there. the first thing that you will break is the little dogbone/torque mount engine mount bracket thingie. (i cant remember the actual name of the thing) on the bottom of the transmission. this is cheap and easy to replace and you wont break it unless there is something else putting it in a bind or if you are being excessively rough on the car. if you reinforce this or get a stronger one you will then start breaking axles if you continue launching the car extremely hard (and/or if you suffer from excessive wheel hop). if you get 300mm billet axles which are getting very hard to find and are very expensive you will likely then bust the transmission case at some point which is extremely expensive for a stronger unit. i seem to recall it was several grand. so basically what im trying to say is either deal with the busting tranny mount bracket which is the easiest to replace and the cheapest or push your luck a hair further and deal with snapped axles if they happen but dont push your luck further than that. tom ran a drag car that made over 700whp on stock axles and never broke one because he didnt launch the car like a maniac.
you should look into a better intake manifold as well. the stock manifold SHOULD be able to take you to 400whp but it will be restricting power. top speed makes a nice unit that requires that you use the SVT lower intake manifold.
i think that covers pretty much everything as far as the build and your direct questions go. get a good turbo kit and tune, there is nothing wrong with second hand kits. dont skimp on gauges, they are always nice to have. a wideband air/fuel ratio gauge is a must. you might want to look into upgrading your suspension and engine mounts while you are at it. stock suspension and bushings will NOT compliment all that power very well. you dont need anything fancy. you can get away with simply replacing all the bushings with polyurethane and good shocks and struts and maybe add some lakewood traction bars to help cut down the wheel hop. and do NOT forget to replace the control arm bushings. when those bad boys go the wheel hop even with a stock car can make the car feel like its going to shake apart.
and you may want to consider brakes as well. if you are going to go fast then you gotta whoa fast. you dont realize how bad the stock brakes suck until you experience something better. the stock brakes fade way too fast for me and they dont come back nearly fast enough. and if you are going to be making as much power as you are saying then you will be spending plenty of time at well over 100mph and the stock brakes just cant get you stopped quickly enough from that speed. just my $.02 on that matter.
and tires! oh lord the tires. you will need to invest in slicks or radials unless you dont mind smoking a set a week. you are not going to hook up with regular street tires with anything over 250whp and even then its a chore so you dont have a chance at 400+
okay im done, book over. let me know if you have any more questions and ill write up another book for ya.
First off let me thank the both of you for you input its helping me kinda puzzle this together.
Tom : The pistons you said are the ones I plan on getting. I want to find a used or cheap focus central 65mm throttle body I hear they are really touchy :). And at least for now i shouldn't worry about adjustable cams until just about everything is done. What about cams should I get like stage 2 or street ones or can stock handle that power. As for the ATX I thought that would be the one so it can stay spooled. Will the stock ATX hold under high boost at least until I get the money for the fancy one. And finally how much are your tuners going for now?
focusmaniac : So both you an Tom are saying stock head gasket I swear working on a focus is a pain in the ass but their parts are so strong they last a long time before they need replacement and they can handle high boot 0_0. I might look into the fuel thing do you have any links or vids offhand before I start looking around? Now LSD's do they make them for ATX's cause I'm leaning closer to that. And I looked for that intake and holy shit it was 550 USD I guess power has a price lol >_<. What does porting the intake involve I've seen people talk about it and they use the 2000 one why? Yah I'll probably be asking a bit more over the next few weeks or so cause I'd just like it not to sound and look like a ricer cause there are so many of them at my college I'd like to smoke them all most are running 220whp. As for suspension I have Eibach lowering kit and their sway bars and bushing kit, also I have the inserts for the lower mount an I plan on getting the other 2 mounts as well.
I've owned two cars a 2000 focus se dark red and now a 2002 focus se silver they are such beautiful cars I'm glad it was my first car.
any brand of 65mm throttle body will perform the same so it doesnt NEED to be a focus central one.
STOCK cams are going to perform very well with boost. there is no need to put different cams in it. more aggressive N/A cams dont work together with boost very well. i know a company called mcnews used to make a custom set of turbo cams and as far as i know they were the only ones that actually made a decent gain under boost but im not sure if they are available any more or if mcnews is even still around. they really are not worth the money though. just add more boost and make up the power difference and it will cost less.
the STOCK atx might handle 200whp for a period of time. however i wouldnt feel comfortable with it. alot of people have busted the stock ATX just with about 170whp from a supercharger.
look on toms website for pricing info for tuners and tunes.
here is a link to the fuel setup from top speed. this is the only complete setup that i know of that you can buy as a complete kit. you CAN throw one together yourself if you know what you're doing though. i would suggest making one yourself with tom's help because it would be cheaper. http://topspeedparts.com/Return-Fuel-System_c_158.html
yes there are LSD's available for the ATX. if you buy a fully built trans from lentech i am pretty sure it comes with one.
yes power has a price. however alot of the pricey bits can be bypassed by simply adding more boost. if you have a forged bottom end and a turbo kit that can make the boost and a fuel system that can keep up and a transmission that can put the power down then you dont really NEED to change anything else.
dont port the intake. if i remember correctly the y2k intake is a 1 piece design and the later ones are a 2 piece so it holds up better to boost and flows just a little better. however if you port it then you will be removing some structural integrity and it might crack under heavy boost.
Well I wanted FC throttle body cause people said its touchy that's all I've been looking all over for a used one they are hard to find.
So don't even worry about ACG then and what about cam shafts? If I do need cam shafts then do I get stage 1 or 2 cause I found a pair of stage 2 for $250.
So if I got the ATX I'd probably want the Street Terminator PLUS for $3k and get the converter idk, how high is the MTX-75 rated for can it at least hold up to 350whp?
I found a link to his site on another post. It's 400 not bad at all plus life time of updates kool. I already knew the update part tho.
DAMMMNN that is pricy for a fuel system I bet it can be made for at LEAST a 1/4 of that price.
Now what turbo kit could I get for my car I don't want a $5k one that needs more stuff still but I don't want a $1k ebay one either. A turbo I want would be able to get me 300+whp I'd like to peak at 4-500whp on a track day. Also would it be possible to run a tune that I'm running about 20-25psi or more but on a day I'd be DD'ing run 5-10 psi with out flashing a new tune is that possible?
The engine I'll be spending 900 for pistions, rods, and bolts.
Tuner from Tom 400
Pan with bung from Tom 35 with core if hes still selling them
New low end gaskets 40
A/F gauge 70 I like this one http://www.importimageracing.com/pro...olt-gauge.html
boost gauge 50-60 http://www.maperformance.com/prospor...Q#.UNiTmnft930
Turbo kit IDK I would like one that can do 25psi but would like 35 max.
Thanks for you help!
oh sorry about the cams thing i think you may have misunderstood me. adjustable cam gears are nice to have with any performance application whether it is N/A, boosted or otherwise. it gives much more adjustability as far as tuning goes. what i was saying was keep the stock cam shafts. no stage 1 or stage 2 cam shafts are needed at all because the stock camshafts perform exceptionally well with boost.
to get the MTX to hold 350whp you are going to want a pretty heavy duty clutch. something like a clutchmasters fx300 or fx400 and either one will run you over $500. the fx300 will be a much more streetable clutch but might not be able to handle the power but if it can it should last longer than the fx400 which will have no problem handling the power but it will be harder to drive on the street because it is a puck clutch instead of a disk. it seems like disk clutches seem to last alot longer than pucks. for the best of the best for a clutch you are looking at just under $1500 for the clutchmasters twin disk 725 series that will take pretty much anything you can throw at it for power, it is still easily driveable on the street and it will last for quite a long time in theory.
you are going to be looking at about $500 for a torsen LSD and about $800-$900 for a quaife LSD. i think the OBX is around $300 but like i said earlier. if you go to the OBX then you are going to be a guinea pig.
then you are probably going to want a good flywheel as well. some clutch kits like the CM twin disk will come with a new flywheel which is partly why the twin disk is so much more expensive since the other two i listed dont come with flywheels. depending what brand you go with the price on flywheels will vary. i bought my fidanza lightweight aluminum flywheels for about $300 and i LOVE the little booger. im just not sure if im going to be able to use it on future applications. something like a clutchmasters flywheel is going to run about $450.
those are really the only things you need to worry with to beef up a MTX to hold that much power. what you have to decide is whether you want to sacrifice driveability and longevity for the sake of a budget. the built ATX will drive like stock and you could take it to get groceries every day without a problem and ANYONE can drive it because its automatic. it will also be faster. the MTX will be harder to drive with a hardcore clutch and it will be slower. you will also have to take into consideration that at some point you are going to have to pull the trans again to replace that expensive clutch because big power cars will go through them faster than a normal car. clutch life will depend more on how you drive it than anything else.
i bought my turbo kit second hand off this site for under 2 grand. poke around a little bit and you will find a deal. its highly doubtful that you will just come across a kit that is capable of 500whp out of the box for that much though. you will probably have to buy a kit and then swap in a bigger turbo. thats what im going to have to do. the current turbo might get me to 330 or so but since my pump gas goal is 450 im going to need a bigger one. oh and that reminds me. you realize that you can get a pump gas and race gas tune right? that octane makes a huge difference with power. at 450whp on pump gas i could probably squeeze it out to 550 or maybe even flirt with 600 on a race gas tune with some 116 octane.
if you had a boost controller i dont see any reason why you couldnt run a big boost tune and just turn the boost down. but i would just get separate tunes. that is something you could discuss directly with your tuner of choice.
i would not buy that A/F gauge. spend a little bit more and buy an AEM UEGO A/F ratio gauge. you need a WIDEBAND. A/F ratio gauge. im pretty sure that one you linked to is a narrowband and those things are completely useless. they dont read accurately and are nothing but a light show.
the boost gauge looks like it would do the trick but i dont think it reads high enough if you want to boost 35psi.
almost everything you need you should keep your eyes peeled on the BST section of this site and snag up what you need when it comes available. smoking deals on all kinds of things come through here all the time. the only things i would buy brand new are transmission components, pistons and rods. if you have the time to hold out and be patient then you could feasibly do this build for alot less.
im still running on stock cam gears. I haven't dynod yet either. I really should switch over to adjustable ones. but im not sure how that screws with the timing issue, but OP the posts above have pretty much answered all your questions here. you are starting the same way I was little over a year ago. and ive spent just now 7 grand making id say lil over 300 horses
The boost gauge I just like the way it looks and 35 psi is something that I would be running on a day where I'm trying 1/4's or dynoing not something that would be used more than 100 miles out of every 5k miles. An the A/F gauge I didn't look to see if it was wide band or not I know the narrow is bad it was kinda just an idea of what I'm looking for not a bunch of led's an bejeweled just simple and does what it needs to do. Also dont I have to get a wide band o2 if so recommendations?, and where would I put it #1 or #1 spot
I know some tuners can hole 3 or 4 tunes so could I do that and have it say like (great gas DD tune then flash to balls out power on a track day?
500whp would be a dream goal I've seen 600 but my first goal is 300-350 first I want a civic killer lol to many ricers an diesel truck boys at my school wanna show them what a focus can throw down. :) Now as far as trannys go I'm gonna end up putting the most money into that out of everything it looks like lol that's gonna suck but oh well i don't want it to blow up on me. Prolly gonna stay with ATX then so I can let other people RARELY drive it lol.
An as for time I have plenty of it I'm waiting for my pain and suffering money from this guy who smashed my first focus/first car. I have some money saved up for this stuff any ways but yah so time is fine but I'd like to get this done by mid to end of summer.
link to my old car http://s1358.beta.photobucket.com/us...iking/library/
the AEM uego wideband A/F gauge comes with an o2 sensor. most wideband A/F gauges are going to come with an o2 sensor. you want the stock o2 sensor that is furthest upstream to stay the furthest upstream then the wideband next and then dont even worry about the stock downstream o2 sensor. that will get turned off with a tune anyway. all the downstream o2 sensor does is monitor whether or not the cat is working and i doubt you will be running a cat with your turbo kit.
the xcal3 can hold several tunes i think. i know the old xcal 2 i have can hold at least 2.
the ATX is a wise choice and not alot of people go that route but you will be thankful for it in the long run.
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