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-   -   Dry Sump worth it? (http://www.focusfanatics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=300761)

Magus2727 10-25-2012 07:15 PM

Dry Sump worth it?
 
I am doing my engine rebuild right now and am held up in some way due to waiting on C-F-M finding a new vendor for the billet gears for the oil pumps. I have heard mentions of a dry sump as another option. well I finally decided to investigate that route and it looks like its a fairly "simple" swap out, but it's about a $1,500+ set up?

What dictates if you should have a dry sump?

from my readings it looks like if you:

1. Do a lot of rally/auto-X (have extreme G forces and have the potential to be in a situation where your oil pump is starved due to oil being forced away from the pickup.

2. Or are a high RPM. It looks like on our blocks in most cases even with a built motor we don't make a whole lot of power over 7k RPM. So even if you run a crazy amount of boost or HP out of the motor as long as you don't take it over 7,400 RPM you should be fine with the stock pump?

I found this,

http://www.titan.uk.net/products/5.20//sump-systems

it looks like its be recommended as a good kit on here, whats the difference in the "BSP" vs the "JSP" kits? do the fittings matter? any US companies sell this?

Does HP of the motor play any factor into the oil pump?

And what I have not been able to find is what do you do with the old pump?

amc49 10-25-2012 09:25 PM

Dude don't go there............there is no reason why you can't cure those problems without dry sump. It's done for power, not reliability.

I've dry sumped cars before, you go there when you pretty much give up on the car being a street car. Simply way too much complication for the smaller amount of hp you'll get from a 4 cylinder if not supercharged.

Dry sump not well thought out is often a source of many more troubles and many of those result in motor blowups.

sleepyboy 10-25-2012 10:04 PM

If your not taking it regularly over 7500 rpm then I wouldn't worry about going to dry sump. It's not often that we break the oil pump gears, in fact I can't even remember the last time this even happened to someone. All I know is our tuners and high hp people back in the day did have them break and find out that they are the weak link but those were ultra hp builds and super high rpm. That's why we have aftermarket oil pump gears in the first place lol

1turbofocus 10-25-2012 10:12 PM

Dry sump is done for reliability and high RPM it has nothing to do with the power the car makes
Dry sump takes on a whole new can of worms if your not going over 7400 then use the stock oil pump , its harmonics that kills the gears not the power its making

Tom

Magus2727 10-25-2012 11:31 PM

Sleepyboy, Who all makes aftermarket oil pump gears? I have been waiting since June for C-F-M to re source theirs. I was not aware of any other company that does. I do not plan on taking my car much over the 7,400 RPM because our motors dont really make any power up their any way. I just wanted them for that extra little insurance. I am guessing also due to the oil pump design and position, when the gears do brake as long as you have an oil pressure gauge and you shut down as fast as you can you should not have any harm done to the motor, right?

So the lateral-G is not so much a worry with out wet-sump stock oil pump design? this is still going to be a DD but would like to take it to open track days as much as I can.

going with the Billet gears then (or aftermarket higher performance gears) you basically slightly changing the harmonics of the pump due to material properties being different and having the gears slightly stronger you making it so the can handle higher stress before they brake. The coating you mentioned (Tom) in a previous thread would just shift the harmonic up a little right?

sleepyboy 10-25-2012 11:39 PM

I have no idea who all makes them, CFM was the only place that I know of. Have you looked at any of our other sponsors like Massive or Top Speed? I know they make some custom parts for our cars they may have the oil pump gears?

amc49 10-25-2012 11:55 PM

Disagree. Done mainly to get car lower to ground, when drag cars started going to them for that as well as the 50-75 or more extra hp they brought. Indy cars use them to get low, low, low. Horsepower there too. All at the time decried how they could easily bring car down since the systems were more complicated. Having to balance scavenge flow to pressure is a whole 'nother thing that has to be right that is a nonexistent problem on wet sump systems. The dry sump tank must be right too, not as simple as just throwing a tank on there. RPM not an issue since same type of basic pump used as in wet sump but with more sections. Running a belt drive dry sump pump outside motor gets more trouble than a pump inside engine, rocks pitch in belt and broken. A regular wet sump pump can go 12000 rpm or more if system designed right and applied right. Not that ALL of them can of course..........but the potential is there.

Dry sump allows stripping away of the oil that stays around crankshaft at higher rpm to sap hp. That's where the extra power comes from. On the 700+ inch motors we used to run it was supposed to be worth 75 hp @ 9000 rpm.

1turbofocus 10-26-2012 09:18 AM

LOL what ever LOL I am not going to get into a debate about this with you but I do have to say thats some of the silliets stuff I have read

Tom

wrc_fan 10-26-2012 09:31 AM

The dry sump systems for zetec and duratec engines from the UK are sourced mainly for the catterham/lotus 7 clones that will see sustained high g forces on race tracks. Unless the car is 100% racecar, I personally would say meh to putting one on a focus.

1turbofocus 10-26-2012 09:51 AM

Agree

Tom


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