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-   -   Transmission/Clutch Slipping (OBD2 Plots) (http://www.focusfanatics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=299299)

paul21 10-07-2012 11:24 PM

Transmission/Clutch Slipping (OBD2 Plots)
 
So I hooked up my OBD2 and logged some data earlier today. The blue is speed and the red is Speed/RPM ratio. Ideally it should stair step with each gear unless there is slipping going on (which I highly suspect). I've got a 5/11/11 build, with a lot of issues.


http://i.imgur.com/0iGYc.jpg
This is 50mph~ using select shift to downshift through some gears. No throttle appled, everything looks normal.

http://i.imgur.com/pGNB0.jpg
Here is another deceleration, looks good.

http://i.imgur.com/Hf8mo.jpg
Here is cruising/coasting in 6th gear.

http://i.imgur.com/9inex.jpg
This is cruising with some acceleration, still in 6th gear. The ratio is all over the place. I can feel the engine rev up then come back into place whenever I apply throttle.

http://i.imgur.com/E6qgG.jpg
This is how my car performs on a cold start. The clutch slips all over the place in the parking lot. It doesn't really lock into a gear until 15mph+

http://i.imgur.com/T6KZJ.jpg
Here I'm cruising then I accelerate and the car downshifts. The circled part is where the clutch is slipping during acceleration.

http://i.imgur.com/PgIo0.jpg
Another acceleration with slip. The circle plateau starts low then rolls up, so it's slipping there.

http://i.imgur.com/Jyvmt.jpg
This is a 50-55mph acceleration with a downshift. The car usually hesitates a little bit (the 3 dots) then drops into gear and surges a little bit.


Does anyone else have any data from their cars to compare?

Doctor Drew 10-08-2012 12:01 AM

I have no hard data, other than that when my car is in sixth gear (cruise on or off), I can see the tachometer bouncing up and down by less than 100rpm.

I spend a lot of time in my work parking lot and at low speeds too, and it really seems to smooth out at 15mph, below that it's real jerky. I just attributed it to how few miles I have on the car (less than 1000).

Ox-y-GenIII 10-08-2012 02:37 AM

do you have the same kind of logs from other dct cars? I have a feeling its just the way this transmission works. VW/Audi dcts are a whole different system. Im in for comparisons with any other dcts.

smizak 10-08-2012 06:45 AM

Nice work. I am so taking this to the dealer with me if they tell me again that they can't find anything physically wrong, yet still acknowledge the grinding and slippage.

dan50 10-08-2012 07:40 AM

I suspect mine is doing the same thing. Ford's DCT literature talks about "microslip" technology where some clutch slippage is allowed or induced to make the experience smoother. So the debate could be whether this degree of slippage is a feature or a bug.

Dealers can hook a recording device to the OBD port. Much like a heart monitor, if an irregularity is noted during a test drive pushing a button will preserve that data. This is the next step for my car; armed with your data maybe you could suggest the same to your dealer.

raptor1956 10-08-2012 09:50 AM

This is very good work and information -- I think everyone should have an OBDII dongle and software to log the data. Torque is a great peice of software for Android devices and if the dongle outputs in blutooth or wifi most any Androi phone or tablet should read/log with no problems.

When in select shift manual the ratio off engine rpm to car speed should be constant in a given gear unless there is slippage. There can be slippage with slippery roads, of course, but if the roads and conditions are good the only explanation for slippage is the clutches are slipping. And no, that is NOT how they supposed to work except during the take-off from a stop. If you're cruising along at, say, 55mph in 6th the rpm should be about 2060 give or take a bit so if it's sitting at, say 2060 rpm and then you hit a hill that puts more load on the car and the rpm increases even though the cars speed stays the same or decreases there can be but one explanation -- clutch slippage!

Really folks, if you are having this DCT problem it would be a very good idea to either buy an OBDII dongle or borrow one so that you can record data and show them. If that doesn't work perhaps you could contact a lawyer and I can pretty much guarantee that if the dealership receives a certified letter on a lawyers letterhead that references this data the dealer will not easily ignore that!


Brian

PratoN 10-08-2012 09:53 AM

Awesome post, Paul. Thanks for the info. Based on your issues and build date, I'm sure you'll need the 11-12-13 TSB applied at some point. I'm going in today at 1pm to get it checked out. Wish me luck!

FordService 10-08-2012 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paul21 (Post 4392808)
So I hooked up my OBD2 and logged some data earlier today. The blue is speed and the red is Speed/RPM ratio. Ideally it should stair step with each gear unless there is slipping going on (which I highly suspect). I've got a 5/11/11 build, with a lot of issues...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doctor Drew (Post 4392863)
...I spend a lot of time in my work parking lot and at low speeds too, and it really seems to smooth out at 15mph, below that it's real jerky. I just attributed it to how few miles I have on the car (less than 1000).

Quote:

Originally Posted by smizak (Post 4393049)
Nice work. I am so taking this to the dealer with me if they tell me again that they can't find anything physically wrong, yet still acknowledge the grinding and slippage.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dan50 (Post 4393112)
I suspect mine is doing the same thing. Ford's DCT literature talks about "microslip" technology where some clutch slippage is allowed or induced to make the experience smoother. So the debate could be whether this degree of slippage is a feature or a bug.

Dealers can hook a recording device to the OBD port. Much like a heart monitor, if an irregularity is noted during a test drive pushing a button will preserve that data. This is the next step for my car; armed with your data maybe you could suggest the same to your dealer.

Hi everyone,

Remember that I'm here to help; if your vehicle is exhibiting transmission/clutch slipping, I want to see how I can help. Please send me a PM with some background on what you've been experiencing, your VIN, dealer, mileage, and a good daytime contact number. I'll start researching.

Thanks!
Crystal [:)]

feta_mgp 10-08-2012 10:32 AM

OP what OBD2 tool are you using to get this information? I'd like to try it out as well. Also, when I'm using cruise control, I have small "hiccups" where the tach will bounce less than 100rpms up, the car will feel for a split second that it has lost power, and then settle back in. My dealership told me this is normal, however it's only been present AFTER 12b37. I have talked to Ford Customer Service about this and it was escalated to my dealership, however, the manager at the dealership is the one who told me it was normal. I have since stopped using cruise control because it bothers me.

paul21 10-08-2012 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by feta_mgp (Post 4393453)
OP what OBD2 tool are you using to get this information? I'd like to try it out as well.

I'm using a bluetooth ELM327 tool (less than $20 , Mini ELM327 is ~$15) to read the data and wOBD to log it to a file ( http://www.obd2crazy.com/software.html ).

You just pair the device with your laptop (USB bluetooth adapters are cheap as well) using the password "0000" or "1234" or "9999". It will assign it a COM port (COM6, etc) which you can check by clicking properties once it's paired. Open wOBD and set the com port on the bottom.

With wOBD there's a Data Acquisition section. Go to the Polling Designer and keep Engine RPM and Vehicle Speed, delete the rest. Set the poll frequency to 1 (approx 3 times a second). Click save then go to the polling screen.

Set the max poll loops to 99999 and click save then reset. You should be able to click start polling and collect data. If the values don't populate within ~10 seconds, click stop, reset, and wait 30 seconds and try again. Once the RPM is reading >800 then you can start driving.

After you've done your driving, click export and it will make a .log file. Open that file with a text editor and you can copy the columns of data into excel or something else (openoffice, google docs, windows live office). I delete the time column and add in a new one called "index" that just increases from 1 to the end of the data set since the time doesn't have sub-second accuracy. I add another column that's speed/RPM for the ratio and plot both on an XY scatter by selecting index, speed, and the ratio column. Click the 2nd data set (red boxes) and right click, format properties or similar then change its axis to secondary.

At that point I just make the graph really wide by zooming out so it's not so compressed in the X-axis and take screenshots of the interesting parts.


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