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-   -   why no 6th gear? (http://www.focusfanatics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=297470)

Michaelc1220 09-11-2012 03:52 PM

why no 6th gear?
 
Im curious why they would limit the manual trans to 5 gears instead of 6 like the automatic. It would most likely bring better gas milage that the 5 speed and would be more traditional for the focus. Any ideas?

suss6052 09-11-2012 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michaelc1220 (Post 4348577)
Im curious why they would limit the manual trans to 5 gears instead of 6 like the automatic. It would most likely bring better gas milage that the 5 speed and would be more traditional for the focus. Any ideas?

The cost is probably a likely factor, after all they didn't plan on building or selling more than 10% of all the MK3 Focus models in the U.S. with a manual, actually they initially predicted only a 5% take rate, where as it was running at nearly double that to nearer to 10%.

As well as the fact that they had already bolted up the MTX-75 to this basic block and its less expensive to certify only one or two power train options than it is to certify a whole raft of them like are available in Europe, including an MMT6 Ford-Getrag 6 speed manual transmission.

TboneZX3 09-11-2012 03:57 PM

Cost and supply, most likely. The MTX-75 transmission has been around for a LONG time. It is available and has proven itself to be very durable. It was probably cheaper to stick with this proven, inexpensive trans than to ramp up production and distribution of the 6 speed available in Europe.

Elizabeth 09-11-2012 07:59 PM

Agree the current five speed is 'good enough' and they had it.
Making a new transmission for the small number of manual cars in the USA would have been folly.
When they change engines in a few years they probably will have the six used on the ST with it.
Too many gears sucks anyway*. The ONLY useful sixth gear would have been higher than the current fifth for high speed cruising.
The current compalint of a 'gap' in the gearbox? who is running races all day every day?
Damn, I have to row enough as is..And the only gearing i would want aded is a one further top gear for loafing along at 65 .. 70 mph..

* for all you ready to pounce, i am just making excuses why i should like my 5 speed and be happy.. So get over it.

frinesi2 09-11-2012 10:44 PM

Because the MTX-75 is awesome.

MyThIc3LiTe 09-11-2012 10:51 PM

The MTX75 is akin to the TR6060 or T56.

The transmissions refuse to die and when they do they are hilariously cheap and easy to work on.

The 6 speed would have been nice, but a 5 speed works better for wringing what you want out of a engine like ours.

Cost is a big issue as others have mentioned, even with the higher take rate on the manuals it still wouldn't have made much sense for them to offer the more expensive manual here, and I say that with a chuckle because we are now in the kind of market where making a 6 speed DCT gearbox is considered more cost effective then it is to bring over a 6 speed manual.

Zillon 09-11-2012 11:24 PM

I believe that if Ford offered the car with a 6-speed, they would've lost their argument for buyers to purchase the DCT. I believe the Focus would be capable of better MPG with an additional cog.

"Why get a manual? Our DCT trans gets equal or better fuel economy!"

They couldn't say that if the MK3 had a 6-speed.

suss6052 09-11-2012 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zillon (Post 4349492)
I believe that if Ford offered the car with a 6-speed, they would've lost their argument for buyers to purchase the DCT. I believe the Focus would be capable of better MPG with an additional cog.

"Why get a manual? Our DCT trans gets equal or better fuel economy!"

They couldn't say that if the MK3 had a 6-speed.

That would only work if it had a similar 6th gear ratio to the DCT. If its just the same as the MTX-75 but with one extra cog in between it really wouldn't do better.

Zillon 09-11-2012 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by suss6052 (Post 4349497)
That would only work if it had a similar 6th gear ratio to the DCT. If its just the same as the MTX-75 but with one extra cog in between it really wouldn't do better.

In my case, the 6th cog would be a proper OD gear. I personally feel the car revs a bit high on the freeway, and this prevents the 5MT cars from getting better fuel economy.

suss6052 09-11-2012 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zillon (Post 4349525)
In my case, the 6th cog would be a proper OD gear. I personally feel the car revs a bit high on the freeway, and this prevents the 5MT cars from getting better fuel economy.

The 5MT with the stock 16" wheels and the 0.82:1 5th gear ratio, and 3.82:1 axle ratio is revving 374 rpm more than the DCT with the 16" wheels, with its 0.702:1 gear ratio and 3.85:1 axle ratio. The gap broadens with increased speed until the point where by 80 mph the manual is running nearly 1000 revs more per the gearing calculation.

I've confirmed that the DCT does 2600 rpm at 70 mph (calculated 2584 rpm, so its within the tolerance for the results as the real world is not ideal, and the rolling radius might be slightly off a bit from the book value).

The manual would be over 3000 just like my old Prizm was with its similar gearing.

As speed builds there is no way that the 5MT can be as efficient at higher speeds than the DCT just because its gearing isn't tall enough. The shorter gearing might help the acceleration slightly, but not really.

Of course a 6MT with the same gear ratios or perhaps slightly taller would help close the gap.


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