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-   -   "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" (http://www.focusfanatics.com/forum/showthread.php?t=246905)

CJohn364 12-22-2010 08:34 PM

"Don't Ask, Don't Tell"
 
It's official. Pres Obama signed the repeal today.
http://www.komonews.com/news/national/112311334.html

What are your thoughts? Let's keep this a clean discussion.

My opinion, I think they are definately going to be challenged with integrating this with deployed Service Members. My only issue that I 100% disagree with is the fact that people got discharged under the old policy and were able to come back as if nothing has happened. My opinion on it is that the discharge should stand as it was under a policy that was already in effect. Now that the policy has changed, they would be able to come back in with that time since their discharge being considered a "break in service".

madisonHQ 12-22-2010 08:36 PM

i feel that anyone should be given the opportunity to defend their country( of course after passing all requirements)as long as homosexuals dont try to hit on str8 soldiers then its all good !!! USA BABY !!! ITS A FREE COUNTRY !!!

Missourileo 12-22-2010 08:42 PM

In all honesty, nationality, gender,religious pref, sexual preference, make, model......whatever you want to call it,has nothing to do with a person's willingness to serve our great nation. Other countries have had gays/lesbians in the military for a long time now. I don't really see where it is a problem. I think our country is a little backwards and way behind in "free thought". If a person is willing to give their life, so others can live free, is all that matters anyway. Plus, I really liked looking at those females in uniform, when I was in theater..........Especially after a 3 month stint of not seeing a female, well one without a veil anyway.

jmiller_1974 12-22-2010 09:51 PM

I knowingly served alongside closeted gay Soldiers in Kuwait, and did not take sexual preference into account during a firefight. That said, I don't have a problem with it, but know of many people who would.

I also think that this retroactive re-enlistment is a kinda bad idea, and this is why: The 13,000 some-odd folks who were discharged were most likely released because They couldn't keep from airing Their dirty laundry out in Public, so to speak. A certain amount of presence of being and presence of environment is essential in an effective Soldier, and allowing Your personal life to become so apparent to Your professional life that it causes severe conflict is just not acceptable. It doesn't work in the Civilian World, so it certainly can't in the Military(who follow a higher personal standard), right? It would be equated to lighting a joint in Your XOs office. Until the Brass say it's okay, simply put, it is not okay, and if You can't figure that out, I don't want You behind the trigger of a gun.

goinloco1 12-22-2010 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmiller_1974 (Post 3499318)
I knowingly served alongside closeted gay Soldiers in Kuwait, and did not take sexual preference into account during a firefight. That said, I don't have a problem with it, but know of many people who would.

I also think that this retroactive re-enlistment is a kinda bad idea, and this is why: The 13,000 some-odd folks who were discharged were most likely released because They couldn't keep from airing Their dirty laundry out in Public, so to speak. A certain amount of presence of being and presence of environment is essential in an effective Soldier, and allowing Your personal life to become so apparent to Your professional life that it causes severe conflict is just not acceptable. It doesn't work in the Civilian World, so it certainly can't in the Military(who follow a higher personal standard), right? It would be equated to lighting a joint in Your XOs office. Until the Brass say it's okay, simply put, it is not okay, and if You can't figure that out, I don't want You behind the trigger of a gun.

^^^ confuse yourself much?
you don't have a problem but you do? may wanna reread what you posted.

my question is how is housing gonna work? I was stuck in that situation late 80's for a couple months before finding an open bunk with better roomies. dude was outright flaming gay

jmiller_1974 12-22-2010 10:15 PM

Yes, I have a problem with Men hitting on Me when My Boss says it's not okay(or really any other time, for that matter). No I don't have a problem with gay people in general, and regardless of sexual preference, i don't want ANYONE who can't control Themselves emotionally or physically being in charge of a weapon. Where's the confusion?

The Men I served with were Soldiers first. That's the difference I think You may not be catching.

madisonHQ 12-22-2010 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmiller_1974 (Post 3499337)
Yes, I have a problem with Men hitting on Me when My Boss says it's not okay(or really any other time, for that matter). No I don't have a problem with gay people in general, and regardless of sexual preference, i don't want ANYONE who can't control Themselves emotionally or physically being in charge of a weapon. Where's the confusion?

The Men I served with were Soldiers first. That's the difference I think You may not be catching.

i get what miller is saying, im trackin that....and i agree brother i have no problem with gay ppl, but when they cant control themselves it can cause issues...

to be specific if the guy is gy and he likes you so he hits on you and you break his jaw and catcha article 15 or something lol

CJohn364 12-22-2010 11:40 PM

Yeah, I can see housing being an issue.

And I agree with Jason. The Service Members that were discharged were discharged because their sexual preference was aired in some way. Regardless of how it was aired, it was under a policy that was in effect stating that it wasn't allowed.

blackoutSVT 12-23-2010 07:32 AM

i remember in BCT their was a artical on this in a on base mag. asking if you would be ok serving with a person who was openly gay. i say to each their own. and like with any one else in the millitary they will have to go by the same rules and codes or face UCMJ punishment. i wouldn't have a problem. i know a few people in BCT who were gay and told me and i had to shower with them never felt any diffrent. we were all their to get readdy for the fight not to get layed..

Onlyford4me 12-23-2010 07:58 AM

I think there are things that will have to definitely be sorted out before we let them serve openly.

1. Housing. At the home station, not an issue. During Basic Training and deployments, definitely an issue. Men and women don't bunk together or shower together. How will this affect people who are openly uncomfortable with doing both with gay people. Right or wrong, there's a lot of people who will have problems with it.

2. UCMJ. That would have to be changed to allow sodomy.

3. Activism. Military members are not allowed to participate in political rallies. Will gays be allowed to participate in gay rights rallies? If so, will they allow other GIs to participate in other activist rallies?

4. Equal punishment. Will there be a political correctness in the punishment process for violation of General Order number 1 and sexual harassment cases? I highly suspect yes. The minute the media catches any wind of a gay being discharged for sleeping with someone in a war zone or someone punished for sexual harassment, it'll be all over the news. And it happens all the time with straight people violating that order. Imagine if women and men were allowed to sleep in the same rooms together.

5. Training. I can only imagine the amount of sensitivity training that will occur. Will this affect readiness? What will have to be cut to teach this? If nothing, then there's no issue here.

As long as all these issues can be sorted out and are well thought out, I don't see a problem with gays serving openly AT ALL. I personally would have been very uncomfortable for the first 5 months I was in had I been forced to shower with and sleep with someone that was attracted to me (potentially or for real, and man or woman).


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