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Topic Review (Newest First)
10-06-2013 10:50 AM
darkangelism
Quote:
Originally Posted by opies View Post
How much is the timing turned back running 87 in a 12:1 engine?

Thats the main reason I run premium. Yes the computer can compensate for the 87, but it does so by retarding the timing.
Considering ford designed the car to run on 87, the car by default might not advance the timing as far as possible and why tuning can get more out of it. Ford's "safe" limit is probably not very aggressive even under 93. I meana we can get data on timing advance with torque pro pretty easily, so this wouldn't be hard to test.
10-05-2013 10:28 PM
opies
Quote:
Originally Posted by darkangelism View Post
E85 offers supper high octane levels and would be safer from that standpoint then. But yes for those reasons 93 is better, but if his engine is not knocking in the first place it is not needed. That being said I agree for the $4 or $5 a tank that will be paid for the trip it can't hurt.
How much is the timing turned back running 87 in a 12:1 engine?

Thats the main reason I run premium. Yes the computer can compensate for the 87, but it does so by retarding the timing.
10-01-2013 10:33 PM
SlickWilly I can't find my exact sources. There deep in LTXTECH but I remember the Tuner on that forum recommended premium to help reduce the chances of a timing pull. I mean I could be wrong, and If I am I have no problem accepting it. I just threw out an idea in my head.
10-01-2013 10:21 PM
suss6052
Quote:
Originally Posted by SlickWilly View Post
91/93 will pull timing, you will need to add timing. If I have this wrong I am sorry. I always ran 93 when I sprayed my Camaro, as with a 175HP it would pull the timing to what I needed it to be. I sprayed my Camaro quite a bit without an issue, so I think/hope I got it right, that or my Camaro is an animal thirsting for a 225HP shot on a stock block.
The engine shouldn't pull timing from running a fuel that is more resistant to combustion. That makes no sense. It may not know to advance the timing from the 87 octane baseline on a car that was only calibrated to run on 87 octane, especially for your Camaro or old (pre 2012) Focus. This is not true with the Ti-VCT engine in the 2012+ Focus N/A or ST. The computer will continue to add timing up to until the point of knock on higher octane fuel, not retard timing.
10-01-2013 10:17 PM
SlickWilly
Quote:
Originally Posted by suss6052 View Post
Um say what?

Higher octane allows for more advanced ignition timing not retarded timing. Retarding the ignition timing is good for lower octane fuel.
91/93 will pull timing, you will need to add timing. If I have this wrong I am sorry. I always ran 93 when I sprayed my Camaro, as with a 175HP it would pull the timing to what I needed it to be. I sprayed my Camaro quite a bit without an issue, so I think/hope I got it right, that or my Camaro is an animal thirsting for a 225HP shot on a stock block.


Also going along with the pulling timing, isn't premium ever so slightly harder to combust or holds its liquid state longer?
10-01-2013 09:58 PM
darkangelism
Quote:
Originally Posted by SlickWilly View Post
my mental thought is to have more timing would be better. Looks like Tom is putting some great info in this thread.
More is better, now I am curious to see if the engine will adjust for more on its own without tuning. Tom knows his stuff, no argument there.
10-01-2013 09:56 PM
darkangelism
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1turbofocus View Post
If you put in 87 and do a run on a dyno then remove and replace with 93 you will see more TQ and HP and less knock

If you tune for 87 it will have less timing then tuned for 93 , proper timing = more TQ and HP
Is this going to = 10 tq/hp that you might be able to feel maybe not but its there , a but dyno is the worst dyno to test your car on

I own a dynojet dyno and been tuning for 30+ years I have seen this hundreds of times 93 almost always makes more HP then 87

Tom
Absolutely I agree, especially with tuning, I wasn't saying it wouldn't make more power, I was saying it wouldn't make enough extra power on the butt dyno to be noticeable with stock parts. My first post was a bit of hyperbole, with saying there isn't more power, and the only comparison I have seen is on Red's car when SCT did their test tune, and he gained 16HP from no tune 87 to tuned 93, so just switching octanes has to be less than that. Is a 10% or less gain going to change his driving experience?

The OP has a 5MT so he is going to be able to downshift and be able to make good power even on 87. But I agree with you that 93 won't hurt and he should do it.
10-01-2013 09:32 PM
suss6052
Quote:
Originally Posted by SlickWilly View Post
I ran 93 to pull timing for nitrous. I know the higher octane retards timing a touch, my mental thought is to have more timing would be better. Looks like Tom is putting some great info in this thread.
Um say what?

Higher octane allows for more advanced ignition timing not retarded timing. Retarding the ignition timing is good for lower octane fuel.
10-01-2013 09:29 PM
SlickWilly I ran 93 to pull timing for nitrous. I know the higher octane retards timing a touch, my mental thought is to have more timing would be better. Looks like Tom is putting some great info in this thread.
10-01-2013 08:57 PM
1turbofocus If you put in 87 and do a run on a dyno then remove and replace with 93 you will see more TQ and HP and less knock

If you tune for 87 it will have less timing then tuned for 93 , proper timing = more TQ and HP
Is this going to = 10 tq/hp that you might be able to feel maybe not but its there , a but dyno is the worst dyno to test your car on

I own a dynojet dyno and been tuning for 30+ years I have seen this hundreds of times 93 almost always makes more HP then 87

Tom
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