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Thread: Rally Racer needs 2.3L / 2.5L Help Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
09-30-2014 08:29 AM
1turbofocus I now have custom made 2.5 H-Beam rods in stock with custom ARP rod bolts for 399.00 these rods will hold 600hp easy

Tom
09-26-2014 01:29 PM
Fernando_221
Quote:
Originally Posted by 408wkash View Post
Talk to Karl at Massive before you take Toms device. Alot of guys have done VERY succesful 2.5 builds with the 2.5 head revving to the moon.
With the 2.5 liter, due to it's high stroke (3.93), the pistons speeds are very high. Revving at 9000rpm the piston linear velocity will be at 30m/s, near Formula 1 engines.

Like Tom said, for a high revving 2.5 you'll need good forged internals and a dry sump, at least.

IMHO, even with forged internals a 2.5 revving this high will not last too much.
The force between piston and cylinder walls (high rod angle x high rpm) will be very high resulting in premature cylinder wear.
09-24-2014 08:38 PM
K Dog If you READ my post you see that I also recommended a dry sump for sustained 9k usage. We have always used a flow bench to test anything requiring it. Certainly anyone can always get a set of custom rods made. But we have them on the shelf. As we've always stated we have the only commercially available 2.5 rods. This way they can be obtained with no guess work, can be shipped immediately and don't have the "custom" set of rods price tag.
09-24-2014 07:26 PM
1turbofocus Yes thats exactly what I said , With my own in house flow bench and dyno jet dyno as well as tuning I do testing and testing I have done shows that the 2.3 head for most customers is a much better option for low and mid range TQ suffering a little above 7000 which most people dont run in as much as they do better mid range ,As well as there is no good intake manifold yet to show the full potential of the 2.5 head , he is running the 2.3 head now and the testing that changed my opinion was done about a year ago

I have known Tom that started K1 for years , he will make what ever I ask him to make , he has started a new business after selling K1 and will still make me what ever I ask for , he use to make me 2 sets of 2.0 Duratec rods and 1 set of 2.3 stroker rods all the time so what are you talking about

I never said you " cant " use the 2.5 head , I told him for what he is doing with his car a 2.3 head would be better , opinions on what should or shouldnt be used on or in an engine should be a case by case as to the customers needs not what best fulls businesses pockets with money

As for your the only one in the world with Forged 2.5 rods here is a 2.5 L4 Duratec on the dyno with Forged rods in it back in 2011 and I had a set made in 2010
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cis_OSQEVWk

The 2.5 L4 AT 9000 will not last a season and it just shows how little you know about these engines , to run 9000 rpm you MUST have a dry sump , the bigger the engine the lass you should turn it and the less you have to turn it to make power , 7600-7800 would be max I would turn the 2.5 with a wet sump



Tom
09-24-2014 05:37 PM
K Dog
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1turbofocus View Post
Hmmmm ... where have I seen that car before ??? LOL

Use the 2.5 head , I can send you some "In the works" 2.5 Dynos

Tom
Very first post Tom makes in this thread...

And now he says you cant use a 2.5 head.

What a g joke.



Mazda Motorsports has had forged 2.5 rods made for them that are available specifically to the WC cars in the last few months. They cost way more than the Crowers that we have, and ours are available to the public. There absolutely have not been any commercially available rods since ours were released. K1 does not have 2.5 rods. They forge everything in China in large quantity anyways, so they would turn down requests for "one set".


From my research, there is an OEM factory forged 2.5 available. It's more than the cast ones on my site, $1000 for the keyed version. Not cheap but still not crazy compared to having an aftermarket one made.


Finally as of earlier to day I finally got around to testing, and do have 12.5:1 SuperTech forged pistons in 89mm stock bore on the shelf.

For sustained 9000 rpm use, you may indeed want to go dry sump. But there are numerous good system that are Duratec specific, so it's no so difficult and not super expensive.
09-24-2014 04:21 PM
1turbofocus Ok now take out the ones with dry sumps , the ones with steel cranks , the ones with ITB , this isnt my first rodeo , I know what he does with this car and how he runs it and I gave him the best advice for what he asked for and what he does with the car

This is a Focus forum not a Miata Forum and he doesnt use this for world challenge

Yes call massive , then that will be out of the way and you will be back here asking questions , I have first hand knowledge of karls / massives engines so dont get me started

Tom
09-24-2014 11:46 AM
408wkash Funny that they chose the 2.5 for the World challenge race cars, and Miata spec racing, but hey thats none of my business right.

Again OP, please check with Karl at Massive, simple phone call.
09-24-2014 10:33 AM
1turbofocus Really , got any dynoes ? if a lot of guys have does this there has to be a lot of dynos and there isnt

Karl doesnt have a flow bench , karl doesnt do tuning, karl hasnt built as many 2.5 as I have , I know what the 2.5 head flows and know its to big for the majority of the guys wanting the extra TQ

Taylor if you choose to go the steel crank and forged or h-beam rods let me know , forged 2.5L rods have been made sense 2010 and massive doesnt have the only ones in the world , K1 can also make some for you , there is many places to get them

You cannot turn these bigger engines " to the moon " and they live , this is going into a race car and he wants more then a few months running out of it , it has to last a few years and all the cars in the group Taylor runs with have taken my advice on there engines and they have run up front and lasted years now

Tom
09-23-2014 10:00 PM
408wkash Talk to Karl at Massive before you take Toms device. Alot of guys have done VERY succesful 2.5 builds with the 2.5 head revving to the moon.
09-23-2014 09:57 PM
1turbofocus Stick with the 2.3 head , you dont need the 2.5 head

To turn the 2.5 safely to 9000 you going to need about 4000-5000.00 in dry sump ,light weight forged crank , good rods and forged pistons in all about 8000 - 10,000.00 not worth it , turn the engine about 7500and pick the right stuff for what your going to do with the car

Me , I would do eagle rods , light weight forged pistons , about 11.5 to 12-1 compression , good stg2 or 3 cams depending on other things you choose , port the 2.3 head and use the cosi knock off also ported and matched to the intake with a good set of valve springs , good header and full 3 inch Exh , custom intake , larger TB

Tom
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