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Thread: If you DCT issues, this will interest you... Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
03-28-2013 12:57 PM
spektrum2
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arco-Zakus View Post
Watch this video and reminisce over the good old days before cars were full of computers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwBmP...nofeather=True
"I'm sorry, Dave. I'm afraid I can't do that."

I don't know which Arnie you're referring to, but Dave can't help either.
Yes the ole days when you could remove the pie plate and hold the choke open with a screw driver if you had to too.As with most things theres pros and cons I suppose.I really love my gizmos so thats a + but I miss the simplicity at the same time.The cars I've owned have gotten more reliable over time but the DIY aspect is disappearing fast and your at thier mercy more and more...next the electrics I guess.


Oh and its Arnie the Terminator after skynet went self aware
03-28-2013 08:41 AM
Arco-Zakus
Quote:
Originally Posted by spektrum2 View Post
... Anyway we have bigger problems. Soon it will be self aware..whata we do then..?
Arnie's to old help us....
Watch this video and reminisce over the good old days before cars were full of computers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwBmP...nofeather=True
"I'm sorry, Dave. I'm afraid I can't do that."

I don't know which Arnie you're referring to, but Dave can't help either.
03-27-2013 08:46 PM
spektrum2
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arco-Zakus View Post
No wonder some owners have trouble getting mileage as good as testers do for the EPA numbers.

I thought the DCT is already "trained to shift for the best possible mileage" if left on its own without driver intervention. Do you know whether testers used the select shift feature at all in tests for the current mpg results?

I'm not as certain as you are that the EPA would be willing to ignore the possible fuel economy impact of a "teach mode" like what spektrum2 has suggested, but I'm just speculating. If you have insider knowledge of how the EPA or carmakers work, I'll take your word for it. If they would ignore it, they could just skip testing and stick with the current DCT test results.

After giving more thought to the "teach mode", I think that even if adding it improved fuel economy, Ford would not want to until after they get their current problems resolved. Adding complexity with any new user (previously known as "driver") involvement would make that
harder. Those pesky "users" always find ways to mess stuff up and give software designers nightmares. ("We never imagined the users would do THAT! Tell them to not do that.")
There's probably lots of behind the scenes reasons why they they would'nt try something like that from thier perspective ,but it would be one heck of a feature in my eyes if only as an option.They could still have parameters like they do now for select shift where the computer will shift before any damage occurs.We have robotic arms at work that you train by manually going through the motions with a joy stick and the computer simply stores the co-ordinates as you go,so from a software point of view a shift program would be pretty basic compared to that.Anyway..just my wish list
03-27-2013 08:30 PM
Arco-Zakus
Are you telling me DCT problems are all in the owner's mind?

Quote:
Originally Posted by paul21 View Post
... the highly advanced turboencabulator inside the DCT ...
There's your trouble. After reading all the threads about problems with the DCT I was starting to suspect that that is the source of all of them. Those things are just so hard to get right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by paul21 View Post
... what you have to do to fix your DCT is reset it, then convince yourself that you truly enjoy the DCT. ... Once you have convinced yourself and changed your attitude about the DCT, you will realize that your problems weren't really problems at all and now everything is fine.
You don't happen to work for a Ford dealer service department, do you? Aren't you worried about owners with difficult DCT's thinking you are telling them that it's "all in their minds" and becoming violent with you?
03-27-2013 08:05 PM
Arco-Zakus
DCT "teach mode" vs EPA fuel economy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hypnotoad View Post
The EPA would treat it the same as a manual transmission. When a car maker performs mileage testing with a manual transmission to present to the EPA they have a professional driver trained to shift for the best possible mileage. The EPA knows that not everyone will shift for the best possible mileage but they accept the best-case results. They would certainly do the same for a "trainable" automatic.
No wonder some owners have trouble getting mileage as good as testers do for the EPA numbers.

I thought the DCT is already "trained to shift for the best possible mileage" if left on its own without driver intervention. Do you know whether testers used the select shift feature at all in tests for the current mpg results?

I'm not as certain as you are that the EPA would be willing to ignore the possible fuel economy impact of a "teach mode" like what spektrum2 has suggested, but I'm just speculating. If you have insider knowledge of how the EPA or carmakers work, I'll take your word for it. If they would ignore it, they could just skip testing and stick with the current DCT test results.

After giving more thought to the "teach mode", I think that even if adding it improved fuel economy, Ford would not want to until after they get their current problems resolved. Adding complexity with any new user (previously known as "driver") involvement would make that harder. Those pesky "users" always find ways to mess stuff up and give software designers nightmares. ("We never imagined the users would do THAT! Tell them to not do that.")
03-27-2013 07:02 PM
spektrum2
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kabigon View Post
There is nothing "convoluted" about the adaptive learning.
It simply "learns" the unique characteristics of the transmission/clutches.

You tell it what you want with your right foot.
Sounds like there's alot of cars out there that won't be graduating with the rest of the class it seems.

Anyway we have bigger problems.Soon it will be self aware..whata we do then..?
Arnie's to old help us....
03-27-2013 04:46 PM
Rogerschro
Quote:
Originally Posted by paul21 View Post
This car is more advanced than the engineers at Ford tell you. It uses complicated machine learning and data mining techniques to predict driver actions. Throttle position, steering position, ambient light, radio volume, and even the genre of the track you're listening to go into the computer so that it can adjust the highly advanced turboencabulator inside the DCT to driving conditions. Some of the computationally intensive model generations are offloaded to the MFT, and in earlier versions of the software it would cause crashes and other random behaviors of the MFT, but has since been resolved.

The issue that most DCT owners, and even some programmers at Ford, don't know is that the system they created is actually capable of detecting bad feelings toward the DCT. The microphone evolved to listen for loud yelling, aggressive throttle actions, and select shift behavior. Once the DCT feels all hope is lost in the driver, it fights back with grinding, jerking, shuttering, and high engine revs.

Some of the dealers have caught on to this so they "reset" the memory of the DCT so that it forgets how much you hate it. Then they try to calm the driver down and teach them that they should really love the DCT so that it doesn't detect these bad feelings anymore.

So what you have to do to fix your DCT is reset it, then convince yourself that you truly enjoy the DCT. You can try to lie to the system, but it is highly calibrated at this point since not all of the DCT memory can really be reset. Once you have convinced yourself and changed your attitude about the DCT, you will realize that your problems weren't really problems at all and now everything is fine.
FINALLY a believable explanation on it! Good thing i think only good thoughts as my car also has heated seats so i would probably get the cold seat treatment too if I were mad at it! And don't forget that it can monitor the FF site too so complaining here will also cause problems.......
03-27-2013 04:14 PM
PratoN
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kabigon View Post
That's right.

The speech recognition of MFT can detect swear words and the word "transmission" in the same sentence. When it does, MFT "informs" the TCM which will then become petulant.
Sarcasm aside - if this were true, it would totally explain my car's mood swings.
03-27-2013 04:05 PM
Kabigon
Quote:
Originally Posted by paul21 View Post
The issue that most DCT owners, and even some programmers at Ford, don't know is that the system they created is actually capable of detecting bad feelings toward the DCT. The microphone evolved to listen for loud yelling, aggressive throttle actions, and select shift behavior. Once the DCT feels all hope is lost in the driver, it fights back with grinding, jerking, shuttering, and high engine revs.
That's right.

The speech recognition of MFT can detect swear words and the word "transmission" in the same sentence. When it does, MFT "informs" the TCM which will then become petulant.
03-27-2013 03:45 PM
paul21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kabigon View Post
There is nothing "convoluted" about the adaptive learning.
It simply "learns" the unique characteristics of the transmission/clutches.

You tell it what you want with your right foot.
This car is more advanced than the engineers at Ford tell you. It uses complicated machine learning and data mining techniques to predict driver actions. Throttle position, steering position, ambient light, radio volume, and even the genre of the track you're listening to go into the computer so that it can adjust the highly advanced turboencabulator inside the DCT to driving conditions. Some of the computationally intensive model generations are offloaded to the MFT, and in earlier versions of the software it would cause crashes and other random behaviors of the MFT, but has since been resolved.

The issue that most DCT owners, and even some programmers at Ford, don't know is that the system they created is actually capable of detecting bad feelings toward the DCT. The microphone evolved to listen for loud yelling, aggressive throttle actions, and select shift behavior. Once the DCT feels all hope is lost in the driver, it fights back with grinding, jerking, shuttering, and high engine revs.

Some of the dealers have caught on to this so they "reset" the memory of the DCT so that it forgets how much you hate it. Then they try to calm the driver down and teach them that they should really love the DCT so that it doesn't detect these bad feelings anymore.

So what you have to do to fix your DCT is reset it, then convince yourself that you truly enjoy the DCT. You can try to lie to the system, but it is highly calibrated at this point since not all of the DCT memory can really be reset. Once you have convinced yourself and changed your attitude about the DCT, you will realize that your problems weren't really problems at all and now everything is fine.
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