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Thread: Hi and low slop for modified injectors Reply to Thread
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Topic Review (Newest First)
03-09-2013 06:56 PM
1turbofocus what ever works for you

Tom
03-09-2013 02:57 PM
paulg127 I'v got a blow through on my 03 SVT with a tubo that work great with a characterized MAF function and characterized injectors.
When it was still NA I characterized the 42 lbs injs that were run with the stock MAF, using adaptive with high and lo slopes.
Changed the AIS - AFTER the injectors were set up, and characterized the new AIS - MAF transfer function.
My rich AF is within 1% of commanded and adaptive long terms are within 5% throughout the operating range.

There are as many ways to do a calibration as there are calibrators.
Sometimes another idea for a different approach might make more sense at one time or another.
03-09-2013 02:49 PM
paulg127 I'm approaching it from 20 yrs at FMC as a calibrator. There is a right way to do a calibration and a wrong way. The right way is to have the MAF and injectors flowed and characterized. The entire calibration is based on the MAF being correct, right or wrong, and adaptive changes the fueling from there. You are wasting valuable correction info if you turn off adaptive (long term fuel trim). There are many ways to change the adaptive to use it to help you from smoking a piston and helping drivability and verifying MAF and injector slope. The adaptive tells you at a given air mass that the stoich point is shifted the adapted amount.
Why would you not use this information? What do you think the adaptive is there for?


I have not used a mafia so I do not know how it functions.
I do know the calculations, tables, functions, scalars and entire strategy that use the MAF transfer function as a basis and have a hard time relating that the ENTIRE calibration is shifted if the MAF is going through a 'correction' from the mafia.

That would shift the normalizers (load) input to every table (spark, fuel, air) and that seems to be a mess to sort out.
03-09-2013 01:31 PM
1turbofocus
Quote:
Originally Posted by paulg127 View Post
High slope is calculated from injector flow, ( lb flow/3600 ) to get in the ballpark, but the 58lb rating does not seem too accurate. The low slope and breakpoints are very hardware specific, but you can use the adaptive fuel terms of the, what is commonly called short term fuel trim, and the long term fuel trim to dial it in.
Typically the idle adaptive (long term fuel trim, lowest air mass) will show if the low slope may not be correct. If the other (higher air mass) adaptive values are close to nominal, most likely the high slope is pretty close, leaving the low slope to correct the idle adaptive cell, provided you do not have an air leak.
If you don't have either the MAF transfer function or the injectors accurately characterized, you really have no way of knowing which, if either is correct.
I'm sure someone has a 3" maf transfer function out there somewhere....
You should never use long turm fuel trim for tuning anything and never use short turm fuel trim or either for setting the high or low slopes

LTFT should be turned off in my opinion and STFT1 should be adjusted in the MTF , what about WOT and the high slope ? what about when he changes to blowthrough , adds a MAFia , you can throw out any MTF any one can give you and and injector settings on paper , then what does he do ?

Why does everyone approach tuning engines the hard way

Tom
03-09-2013 11:44 AM
Fernando_221
Quote:
Originally Posted by iminhell View Post
Get a data sheet from the MFG. of the injectors.
If they don't have one available, return the injectors and buy some reputable ones. It's very tough (next to impossible) for a novice to tune injector slopes. Even some pro's have difficulty. It is possible, just not easy or quick by any means.
Asked the guys from TLF Performance and they said this:

"never heard of that we do lactency and dead time here.
Thanks

- tlfperformanceparts"


The injectors came with a flow sheet:

03-09-2013 11:37 AM
Fernando_221
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1turbofocus View Post
He is doing blowthrough and 3 inch MAF so even if he had the data sheet it wouldnt help him

Tom
Tom, remember my ecu is map/speed density based.
03-09-2013 11:36 AM
Fernando_221
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1turbofocus View Post
I would ask your tuner LOL there is far more to do then just change the slopes

Tom
Agree. I'll contact you by email.
03-09-2013 03:06 AM
paulg127 High slope is calculated from injector flow, ( lb flow/3600 ) to get in the ballpark, but the 58lb rating does not seem too accurate. The low slope and breakpoints are very hardware specific, but you can use the adaptive fuel terms of the, what is commonly called short term fuel trim, and the long term fuel trim to dial it in.
Typically the idle adaptive (long term fuel trim, lowest air mass) will show if the low slope may not be correct. If the other (higher air mass) adaptive values are close to nominal, most likely the high slope is pretty close, leaving the low slope to correct the idle adaptive cell, provided you do not have an air leak.
If you don't have either the MAF transfer function or the injectors accurately characterized, you really have no way of knowing which, if either is correct.
I'm sure someone has a 3" maf transfer function out there somewhere....
03-09-2013 12:30 AM
1turbofocus He is doing blowthrough and 3 inch MAF so even if he had the data sheet it wouldnt help him

Tom
03-08-2013 10:00 PM
iminhell Get a data sheet from the MFG. of the injectors.
If they don't have one available, return the injectors and buy some reputable ones. It's very tough (next to impossible) for a novice to tune injector slopes. Even some pro's have difficulty. It is possible, just not easy or quick by any means.
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