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Topic Review (Newest First)
02-02-2016 03:06 AM
amc49 I used to take the oil to dump it in store tank for customers and what got me to thinking about it. Some people change oil as low as 2500 miles and poured the oils still looked almost new. I asked manager and then kept a few dumps of those low mileage oils and marked them as to type and weight and zero cost oil for many things there.

My son changes his real early too and I keep his now since I do the changes for him. Myself, I pretty much run oil out to 9000 OCI now using dirt cheap Walmart conventional oil. Can't seem to kill the cars even doing that.
02-01-2016 09:51 AM
FocusKnot ^^^ Good ideas there for repurposing old fluid/oil.

And while we are on that subject, a lot of people don't know that most auto parts stores will take your old fluids for recycling. Used fluids are more toxic than new fluids, so please people, don't dump it out on the ground.
02-01-2016 12:23 AM
amc49 You are correct, that would be the same thing as running the engine dry of oil to change it, asking to tear up the engine. Trans oil pump is same construction as engines' and as soon as it pumps dry tries to scar itself up. Utterly retarded.

The 4F27E requires all the old fluid to orderly leave the pan before the new does and as well the 3 quarts plus in convertor to do what we're talking about here. I just don't see how that's possible. The convertor entry is very close to the exit as well and the new fluid coming in could easily short circuit, certainly not like it's on one side of convertor and the exit on the other. The convertor exit passage as well bypasses a lot of the dirty fluid back into the lube1 circuit rather than going to cooler, and another circuit back through hydraulic control too, so no direct one outlet there.

I do the multiple fill method (drain plug in pan, I don't change filter anymore) and wasteful but by the time you have hit 3X you are looking at 75+% new fluid and anything past that is no improvement. 1st time you will have 50% new, 2nd time 75% and 3rd roughly 87%. I save all of the old fluid to use it in other things now so not really wasted. I've actually used the 3rd drain amount in an older car since it was in better shape than what was in it. Excellent chain bar oil for chainsaws too. Some used to make honing fluid too. I sort it by the quality, same as drained engine oil. I use my old 30 weight engine oil in the mower now. Money can be picked up off the street if you're looking.
01-31-2016 12:11 PM
Originally Posted by amc49 View Post
So, what do you do when you get one of the ones that never seems to change color?
I guess I’ll have to figure something else out when that happens, but it hasn’t happened to me yet. I must say that I was VERY skeptical of this process when I first heard about it many years ago. I had always viewed the torque converter as a huge blender. I don’t know nearly as much about auto transmissions as you do, so I cannot explain why it would or wouldn’t work…it just does on the Focus and is the recommended procedure in service manual: Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet

Also, I found a YouTube video posted that shows this being done:

I wouldn’t bother with the siphon part that he does at the beginning, but I think he was just trying to avoid messing up his clean driveway. Also, I have found that I am not quick enough to do a continuous fill by myself, so I always have someone to turn the car off when the fluid changes color in the hose. Several times I have been able to spot the color change and have the engine shut off in time to have new fluid in one end and old, dirty fluid in the other (I use about a 5 foot long clear vinyl hose). Here is a photo (Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet) I took when doing one job that shows the fluid in the hose. Notice that it has bright red fluid in the hose and black fluid in the jug. On this particular flush job I needed to expel the remaining 4 quarts from the system after I had changed the filter and refilled the pan with new fluid. So, I hooked up my 1 gallon jug (on larger systems I use a 5 gallon bucket with fill marks on it) and the fluid changed color in the hose at almost exactly the 4 quart point.

Does this procedure get 100% of the old fluid out? I would think not. However, it must be getting a very high percentage of the old fluid out because if I compare the fluid in the bottle to a sample from the transmission after I have run it, there is no discernable difference. Granted, that is a color and smell test and not a chemical analysis.

I know of another “recommended” method to change the fluid that says to drain the pan (if it has a drain plug), fill, drive, drain the pan, fill, drive, and finally drain the pan and fill a third time. To me, that mathematically can’t work…you can never get the old fluid out, you can only dilute it.

On a side note, I have found that if I overfill the pan before starting the car, I don’t have to rush as much trying to pour in the new fluid. So, if the pan requires 3 quarts, I start with 4. I don’t like the idea of running the pan and possibly the tranny dry. I know that running the tranny dry is described on the first page of this thread, but I don’t do it that way…it just doesn’t seem like a good thing.
01-30-2016 07:51 PM
amc49 So, what do you do when you get one of the ones that never seems to change color? BTDT. More than once.
01-29-2016 10:10 AM
Originally Posted by In a Focus group View Post
As the fluid in the torque converter and rad cooler lines cycles thru the open line, it is replaced by fresh fluid, not mixed. Now when it comes thru clean you are done. Just top the trans off.
Agree 100%.
There is very little mixing in the torque converter as the new fluid forces out the old fluid. If you use a clear vinyl tube on the output of the cooler over to your catch pan you will actually see the fluid change color in the line.

I recently helped my neighbor change the fluid in his Sierra pickup. He bought 4 gallons of Valvoline MaxLife (full fluid capacity was 13-14 qts) and we used just slightly more than the 14 qts and that was because he continued to run the engine a little longer after I told him to turn it off (I was pouring in new fluid as he idled the engine).

The Ford Focus Service Manual describes this procedure for a full fluid change. I put the procedure in this thread:

I think it works best to use two people and not turn off the engine, but the Ford manual describes the one person method of turning off the engine to add more fluid.
01-29-2016 03:02 AM
amc49 Pretty much right away since the output from the convertor is the last thing before cooling. Convertor can be pretty warm with still cold fluid earlier in the lubing loop.
01-29-2016 02:03 AM
Matt89 Will the atf start flowing through the cooler lines right away on a cold engine, or is there some sort of thermostat that regulates that?
05-04-2015 04:01 PM
In a Focus group You're reading too much into the post. I was agreeing with coolkatz's method. Drain, and then add new fluid. As you drain into the bucket, watching the fluid level as he said, clean fluid will eventually start coming out. Of course it gets mixed some before it is all replaced.
Maybe I misunderstood the original post . Not sure why you would pump fluid out before you drop the pan. That's where I see the risk to damage you mention is. Not when cranking and watching for fresh fluid to come out the tube (while maintaining a healthy level)
05-04-2015 03:31 PM
amc49 'As the fluid in the torque converter and rad cooler lines cycles thru the open line, it is replaced by fresh fluid, not mixed.'

Not even..................the fluid is heavily mixed in the convertor with the old fluid and if waiting till what comes out is 'clean' you waited long enough to ruin some extra fluid. The convertor impeller is frothing that new fluid with the old like Momma's electric mixer, no way on earth does it simply come out dirty then suddenly clean. Absolutely no way. The dirty fluid is coming in to mix from 3 different locations in the convertor there.

AND, would you run the engine with no oil pressure as long as you do when changing fluid like this???..........or what you are doing to the trans, when you dump that line in the bucket you just killed your lube feed to 3/4 of the trans, all of the mainshaft bushings get fed from that but no oil as long as the tube is in the bucket. Zero oil pressure to trans while running it........real smart. Look up a fluidchart on the trans and see what the 'lube 2' oil circuit feeds and how it is supplied, from the ass end of the oil cooler.
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