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Topic Review (Newest First)
Today 06:26 PM
2015silverHatchSE ^^ Good call! LOL
Today 06:20 PM
Arco-Zakus
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2015silverHatchSE View Post
... I just wonder why the 2012 manual is the only one that states "Premium fuel will provide improved performance." ...
It's not. See Post #1726 in this thread.
Today 05:00 PM
trekbiker we've benn using premium for years seems to run smoother :0)
Today 04:59 PM
2015silverHatchSE True that dyn085! Wonder if the Skyactiv motors perform better as well on premium since they are high compression too? I shall do a little research. Def will say that with this high test dose (and AEM dry drop in filter, which I've had for a bit) that the twisty, hilly roads around my neck of the woods made the car feel so much better making it around them!
Today 04:43 PM
dyn085
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2015silverHatchSE View Post
Thanks for the explanation dyn085! It's good to learn how things work, IMO. I just wonder why the 2012 manual is the only one that states "Premium fuel will provide improved performance." Wonder if anything on the 2.0 changed since then? It still has a 12:1 compression ratio. Kinda wondered myself with that high compression, why they wouldn't recommend premium? My assumption is that potential buyers would balk at it because no other small cars require it...
I think the statement was removed to avoid confusion, but there is no confirmation from anyone, anywhere about it. As for why they don't recommend premium, you pretty much nailed it-Americans don't want to be forced to use premium in a compact 'everyday' car. Besides, why force people to use it when you can offer them the lower-cost option to use 87 as well, thanks to modern tuning?
Today 04:28 PM
2015silverHatchSE Thanks for the explanation dyn085! It's good to learn how things work, IMO. I just wonder why the 2012 manual is the only one that states "Premium fuel will provide improved performance." Wonder if anything on the 2.0 changed since then? It still has a 12:1 compression ratio. Kinda wondered myself with that high compression, why they wouldn't recommend premium? My assumption is that potential buyers would balk at it because no other small cars require it...
Today 03:45 PM
ThoR294 Yeah after reading, it looks like more aggressive/traffic driving benefits more from premium. She does a lot of highway, but she does get stuck in traffic. So I'll fill her tank for her and not tell her what grade it is so she can't try to sabotage the test :)
Today 03:37 PM
Arco-Zakus
What you see is what you get.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThoR294 View Post
TLDR:

Do our cars like premium and do we get better MPGs yay or nay?

My 96WS6 needs premium or else it pings and knocks (10.6:1 compression, etc. etc., duh)... Focus I figured regular, but after skimming I'm reading conflicting reports. plz halp mah GF get better MPG

tysirs
Depends on how you drive.

Cruising at steady speeds on the highway you probably won't see any difference, except in cost. Frequent enthusiastic acceleration gives higher octane fuel a chance to pay back for its higher cost, possibly improving mpg. You'd have to measure for yourself to see if the improvement (both in mpg and responsiveness) offsets the higher cost.

People commenting here can (and do) describe different results for themselves because everyone drives differently. Just try a few tanks of each and see what happens. Even better if you fill her car for her and don't tell her which gas you used until after she decides whether it feels different or gets better mpg with her driving.
Today 03:36 PM
dyn085
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2015silverHatchSE View Post
Well after 3 tanks of regular and breaking my motor in for about 1000 miles (2.0 SE), I filled up with premium last night. Damn did it make the motor feel better! Def a pleasant surprise!!
I just cut/pasted one of my earlier responses to give a brief understanding of why along with how the OAR works-

Quote:
Originally Posted by dyn085 View Post

The explanation for why there is a benefit is actually pretty simple, and that's because Ford incorporates dynamic timing through the use of knock sensors, an Octane Adjustment Ratio (OAR) learned number and a table for which to multiply against in order to offset timing. The sentence itself sounds difficult, but it's pretty easy. A very quick breakdown-

OAR starts at 0 and is learned in two directions, positive (low octane) and negative (high octane). This gives it a total scale of 1 to -1. This is achieved by monitoring knock sensor (KS) feedback and the timing adjustments that are made accordingly.

The OAR Compensation Table is a timing compensation table with zero or negative numbers at each RPM/load cell. This is located in the borderline ignition tables and is what the OAR learned number multiplies against. The results are then applied to the base timing map being used.

Ok, that means nothing to people that can't see the programming. Here's how it works in practice-

While accelerating, the KS are monitoring each cylinder for knock. If no knock is present then it begins advancing the timing up to whatever the Mk3 KS limits are. The OAR system monitors these timing adjustments and shifts the OAR number towards the negative scale accordingly.

Now that the OAR learned number has shifted towards the negative, there is a compensation that can occur. As an example, if the compensation at 1k rpm/.8 load is -5 then that -5 is multiplied against the OAR number to result in the timing compensation at that specific rpm/load. This compensation is applied to the base table and the next time the vehicle accelerates the timing is now more advanced than it was previously, giving the fuel more time to burn through each stroke.

This continues until either the OAR maxes out at -1 or until the compensation is drastic enough to cause the KS to pick up knock. If knock occurs and timing is reduced drastically enough the OAR moves towards the positive. It doesn't have to max out in either direction and will settle out accordingly based on the fuel and average driving.

This process occurs nearly continuously depending on the fuel used. Good fuel will max out the OAR and achieve the maximum timing advance programmed while poor fuel can do the opposite, and I've seen up to a total of ten degrees worth of timing compensation difference on the stock ST tables between low and high octane. Obviously I don't know exactly what the Mk3 has available, but it will be similar because Ford uses the same Master ECU on its platforms.

I always wondered why highway travelers didn't really see the same benefits that city people did when it came to mileage, but after being able to see the programming I understood it much more. The MBT tables, which is where you 'cruise' at (low/consistent-load), have no OAR compensation-the timing is exactly the same for both 87 and above. Only the borderline tables have the OAR compensation, which makes sense because the only times you're really going to see benefits from using a higher octane are going to be when the engine is under load and there's more heat and pressure within the cylinders.

Tl;dr-Ford utilizes dynamic timing in their current ECU's. Kinda useless for someone that has a flat highway commute but beneficial for those that have a lot of acceleration or higher-load (climbing/passing) driving.
Today 03:33 PM
2015silverHatchSE Well after 3 tanks of regular and breaking my motor in for about 1000 miles (2.0 SE), I filled up with premium last night. Damn did it make the motor feel better! Def a pleasant surprise!!
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